Bill C-18

Online News Act

An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada

This enactment regulates digital news intermediaries to enhance fairness in the Canadian digital news marketplace and contribute to its sustainability. It establishes a framework through which digital news intermediary operators and news businesses may enter into agreements respecting news content that is made available by digital news intermediaries. The framework takes into account principles of freedom of expression and journalistic independence.
The enactment, among other things,
(a) applies in respect of a digital news intermediary if, having regard to specific factors, there is a significant bargaining power imbalance between its operator and news businesses;
(b) authorizes the Governor in Council to make regulations respecting those factors;
(c) specifies that the enactment does not apply in respect of “broadcasting” by digital news intermediaries that are “broadcasting undertakings” as those terms are defined in the Broadcasting Act or in respect of telecommunications service providers as defined in the Telecommunications Act ;
(d) requires the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) to maintain a list of digital news intermediaries in respect of which the enactment applies;
(e) requires the Commission to exempt a digital news intermediary from the application of the enactment if its operator has entered into agreements with news businesses and the Commission is of the opinion that the agreements satisfy certain criteria;
(f) authorizes the Governor in Council to make regulations respecting how the Commission is to interpret those criteria and setting out additional conditions with respect to the eligibility of a digital news intermediary for an exemption;
(g) establishes a bargaining process in respect of matters related to the making available of certain news content by digital news intermediaries;
(h) establishes eligibility criteria and a designation process for news businesses that wish to participate in the bargaining process;
(i) requires the Commission to establish a code of conduct respecting bargaining in relation to news content;
(j) prohibits digital news intermediary operators from acting, in the course of making available certain news content, in ways that discriminate unjustly, that give undue or unreasonable preference or that subject certain news businesses to an undue or unreasonable disadvantage;
(k) allows certain news businesses to make complaints to the Commission in relation to that prohibition;
(l) authorizes the Commission to require the provision of information for the purpose of exercising its powers and performing its duties and functions under the enactment;
(m) requires the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to provide the Commission with an annual report if the Corporation is a party to an agreement with an operator;
(n) establishes a framework respecting the provision of information to the responsible Minister, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, while permitting an individual or entity to designate certain information that they submit to the Commission as confidential;
(o) authorizes the Commission to impose, for contraventions of the enactment, administrative monetary penalties on certain individuals and entities and conditions on the participation of news businesses in the bargaining process;
(p) establishes a mechanism for the recovery, from digital news intermediary operators, of certain costs related to the administration of the enactment; and
(q) requires the Commission to have an independent auditor prepare a report annually in respect of the impact of the enactment on the Canadian digital news marketplace.
Finally, the enactment makes related amendments to other Acts.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

We have the Conservatives throwing out a whole bunch of figures left, right and centre. I have no idea where those figures come from, so I wanted to ask our officials to what extent NDP-16 would enlarge the number of small community newspapers and online news publishers. Would it be able to benefit from this money from big tech?

Secondly, my question is simply this: If we just stop moving forward on Bill C-18, which is what the Conservatives want, what would that mean in terms of those newspapers and online publishers across the country? If we don't have Bill C-18 at all, how many news publications would go bankrupt in the coming years?

I've certainly seen big tech taking so much money out of my constituency that we've lost half of the community newspapers over the last few years.

I'm asking the officials, I guess, three things.

Where do these figures come from, or are they aware of these figures that are being thrown around by the Conservatives? What is the impact of not adopting Bill C-18? What is the impact of NDP-16 in terms of enlarging the number of publications that benefit from big tech finally being forced to provide support for journalism in this country?

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My concern still is the one journalist in this conversation on Bill C-18.

I will go back to the testimony once again from Alberta and Saskatchewan. The majority of newspapers in these two provinces.... I can't speak for B.C. because we didn't have anyone come forward for B.C., Ontario or the Maritimes. These issues in this province and in Alberta are not good. Eighty percent of the money that comes from Bill C-18 will go to the public broadcaster, along with the big telcos.

What they have left here, and the discussion that we're having on NDP-16, is that we still need two journalists, which of course can be the owner and can be an investor. The QCJO status is an issue. I've talked to many journalism universities in this province. Fewer and fewer people are getting into journalism, so this is another issue that we're going to have.

To survive in rural Canada today, one journalist is required. Two would put many of these operations out of business when they're thinking they're going to get $30,000 to $50,000 per year, when in fact they'll get $300 to $500 per year because there's nothing in it for them from Google and Facebook. It's all eaten up by the big boys.

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Previously, I did state the point about supporting.... We need to make sure organizations that had the owner or a partner as a journalist were included, so I've already said that.

Mr. Julian continues to try speak on behalf of the Conservatives' intention with respect to this bill, so I want to reiterate that I do not support Bill C-18. If you were to look to the voting record, you would see that clause 3—the clause regarding the purpose of the bill being to help small media organizations—is the only thing I voted for. I do agree that we should do that. I just don't think this bill will achieve it.

Mr. Julian has put it out there that if we vote for his amendment, we're essentially supporting Bill C-18, so naturally I wouldn't be able to support his amendment.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Subparagraph 27(1)(b)(i) of Bill C‑18 is still useful. It shows the importance of discussing and reflecting, and then speaking with the various stakeholders involved in a bill, as this can produce results.

In this case, I must confess that I was concerned from the outset about the situation of very small regional media, which are no less rigorous because they are small. They are struggling these days, and have been for years now, since the arrival of the web giants.

However, I also have a very serious concern with Bill C‑18, and that is that we need to ensure that the news businesses that will be regulated by this bill are serious and rigorous businesses. We will come back to it with other amendments later.

So I think it's important to set some parameters. Employing two journalists certainly shows that the news business is serious, or so one would hope. If a business hires more than one journalist, it's certain that you're not dealing with a blogger who is merely commenting on the news in their basement. So I think it's important to set some parameters to prevent people from falling through the cracks and taking advantage of Bill C‑18.

A compromise was reached by allowing that one of the two journalists could also be an owner or have an arm's length relationship with the business. This compromise will certainly cover a fair number of small regional media, which are the ones we want to protect with this bill.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madame Chair, and I'm very pleased to move NDP-16.

I think it's important to note that the independent online news publishers of Canada have been the instigators of start-ups right across the country, including two very important publications locally in my community, the Burnaby Beacon and the New West Anchor. They do terrific work. They employ a number of journalists, and they're the ones who have been the standard-bearers looking to have that critical improvement in Bill C-18. Their concern was around journalists who are partners in the business themselves or owners of the business themselves or who don't deal at arm's length with the business. Bill C-18 in its second-reading form excluded them from accessing the funds that are going to be so important for building journalism locally. Of course, the community newspaper associations like Alberta community newspapers and Saskatchewan community newspapers also spoke to this. This is an extremely important improvement.

What it does is it replaces line 9 on page 10 with the following:

Canada, which journalists may include journalists who own or are a partner in the news business and journalists who do not deal at arm's length with the business,

This amendment is a very important and critical one for improving the bill to make sure it's accessible to community newspapers, to online news publishers right across the country, to the media that provide supports in third and fourth languages in this country. We have an ethnic press that is extremely vital and energetic. What this does is provide that ethnic news publications that have owners who are also operators who are also journalists can access this regime. It's extremely important.

I became very confused by the Conservatives in the last discussion around the amendments. They've been opposed to Bill C-18. They've tried to fight Bill C-18. They've tried to delay Bill C-18, and then all of a sudden they spoke in favour of the benefits that come from Bill C-18. This is the litmus test. If they vote for NDP-16, they are showing the importance of improving the bill and making sure that it's accessible to community newspapers and online news publishers right across the country.

With that, Madame Chair, I hope that this passes unanimously. This will be an important improvement to make sure Bill C-18 really does what it needs to do, which is ensure that the big tech giants actually start funding journalism right across the country, including in communities throughout the length and breadth of Canada.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

On this bill, when it does come out, in Bill C-18 clearly the losers are local newspapers in our communities in Canada. They expected a lot more from Facebook and Google.

On the Conservative side, we realized that you can't hire anybody for $300 to $500 a month. These people in rural Canada expected $30,000 to $50,000 a year to hire the reporters needed in this country.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm just going to say this because we heard testimony from Saskatchewan and Alberta on the one journalist. The point I want to make is that Bill C-18 has favoured the public broadcaster and has favoured the big broadcasting outfits that we have in this country.

First of all, in rural Canada, they expected maybe $30,000 to $50,000 to help them to hire an employee through Google and Facebook. That's what this bill set out to do when we first started: to give these little newspapers, ethnic newspapers and other media a lifeline for a reporter. Unfortunately, with the NDP joining the Liberals, what we're now seeing is you can lop off a zero. They're going to to get $300. They're going to get $500 instead of $30,000 a year or $50,000 a year to hire reporters.

It's despicable, Madam Chair, that when I look at ours and we heard from groups like Saskatchewan and Alberta.... I know we didn't hear from B.C., but I brought Alberta and Saskatchewan to the table. We clearly heard from them that—

[Marilyn Gladu, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

I want to clarify for Mr. Julian that I do not support Bill C-18. I share the concerns that have been raised by constitutional lawyers and by our friends in the U.S. I do not think it will achieve the purpose for which it is intended.

However, it is clear that the NDP-Liberal marriage is going to force this bill through, so my attempt here is to minimize the damage that will be done, to try to get the benefit for small media organizations and to try to prevent some of the unintended, hugely negative consequences that will happen.

It's too bad the government wouldn't just take money from Facebook and Google, which are willing to give it, and give it to a consortium of small media outlets and let them divvy the pot, and not let CBC, the Bell news media and Rogers walk off with 75% of it.

Thank you.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm exuberant at the Conservatives' sudden support for Bill C-18. That's wonderful.

As you know, I've been raising for weeks and weeks the issue of the Alberta community newspapers and the Saskatchewan community newspapers while Conservatives pooh-poohed the bill and the legislation and then filibustered it to draw it out. If they are now coming on board and saying they're going to support Bill C-18, that is great news.

We've made a lot of improvements to the bill so far. NDP-16 addresses the issue of those journalists who are partners or who own the business, which was a concern of community newspapers, and I'll be supporting NDP-16. The CPC amendment does not do the job that NDP-16 does.

That said, I think it's very important as well that the government continue to provide supports to businesses that are just starting out, and there are programs available for those businesses that are just starting. I'm going to be voting against CPC-19, but voting for NDP-16, so that we're enlarging the scope of eligibility. I will say that the amendments that have been adopted so far do that as well, so that's all wonderful.

I'm very happy about the support of my Conservative colleagues now for Bill C-18. That's very good news. Let's keep going on, getting NDP-16 adopted and building more improvements into the bill.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

BQ‑3, relating to eligible news businesses, proposes to amend paragraph 27(1)(b) of Bill C‑18, by replacing line 4 on page 10 with the following:(b) produces news content of public interest that is primarily focused

It's a principle of journalism to serve the public interest, and it's recognized as a function of a news business. We want to add the words “public interest” to the term “news content”, as the latter is rather vague and imprecise.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Before we get under way here with clause-by-clause consideration, out of courtesy to Justice Cromwell, as we have a motion to bring him to committee, I'm wondering, Madam Chair, if I could suggest the following. Because we are progressing pretty well on Bill C-18, I suggest we ask the clerk to arrange for Justice Cromwell to come to committee on December 13 out of respect for his time.

As you all know, Hockey Canada's new board will be announced on Saturday, December 17, and we wanted Justice Cromwell here before it proceeds with its new board.

If that's okay with everyone, I circled the date of Tuesday, December 13.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 58 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

I would like to acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

Today's meeting is taking place pursuant to the order of Tuesday, May 31, 2022. The committee is resuming clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-18, An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada.

Today's meeting is in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members attending in the room know by now what to do to get your interpretation. Members who are in the hybrid format, because we've been doing this for a while as parliamentarians, also know what to do to find your interpretation with that little globe thing at the bottom of your screen.

Please wait until I recognize you by name to activate your microphone, and turn it off as soon as you have spoken. Otherwise, we have that horrible clashing sound of my voice ringing like a banshee in the meeting when I try to speak.

We have with us today witnesses from the Department of Canadian Heritage. We have Thomas Ripley, Michel Sabbagh, Joelle Paré and Frederick Matern. They are here to advise, to facilitate and to interpret any of the clauses of the bill with which you wish to deal.

We'll begin with BQ-3 and Monsieur Champoux—

Mr. Waugh, go ahead.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

I did want to ask something of you and the clerk.

We've been working now on amendments for two weeks. This is important legislation that needs to be improved, and I think everybody has been working co-operatively to do that. I also realize that if we are not able to complete our improvement of the bill and it delays over the Christmas break for three months, the provisions of Bill C-18 could take up to nine months, so we're basically putting off for a year the supports that local media organizations vitally need.

I would ask you if it's possible to schedule double meetings in the coming weeks so that we have more time to consider amendments and to work through the amendments. I think it's an important legislative process, but we need to have more time. There's also a certain urgency, as we've heard from many media organizations around us.

If it's possible to put in place extra meetings, I think it would be warranted and welcome, given all of these things.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Good catch, Mr. Waugh, thank you.

I just wanted to say that Mr. Bittle was kind enough to give me a heads-up on the amendment, and I support his subamendment. I think it does allow for some scope in the future around these non-profit entities of community radio and campus radio. It does allow some ability for them to be incorporated into Bill C-18, which I think is the objective of all of us, and that's why we adopted the language around non-profit entities.

I thank Mr. Bittle. I support his amendment.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Now it's my time to wax eloquent and talk about the national campus and community radio fund. These are community broadcasters across the country that provide a great deal of local news and information, but they're not defined in the QCJO definition, the qualified Canadian journalism organization definition. This is an issue we've even had within the tax framework, because these are non-profit stations. They've applied for QCJO status and have been rejected because this is defining broadcasting through the Income Tax Act.

The NDP-12 amendment is simply adding that news media either be defined by the QCJO definition or be “licensed by the Commission under paragraph 9(1)(b) of the Broadcasting Act as a campus station, community station or [indigenous] station as those terms are defined in regulations made under that Act”.

What this would do is simply allow for the non-profit sector to have a place within Bill C-18. You'll recall, Madam Chair, that we've already adopted amendments that apply to both for-profit and non-profit entities.

In terms of news media, we need to support community broadcasters. I think the committee, as a whole, has already indicated that direction in the amendments we've adopted so far.

I'd like to thank national campus and community radio for the work they do right across the country every day. What this would do, without creating a free-for-all, is slightly broaden the categories of entities of news media organizations that could benefit from Bill C-18.

With that, I move NDP-12.