Bill C-18

Online News Act

An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada

This enactment regulates digital news intermediaries to enhance fairness in the Canadian digital news marketplace and contribute to its sustainability. It establishes a framework through which digital news intermediary operators and news businesses may enter into agreements respecting news content that is made available by digital news intermediaries. The framework takes into account principles of freedom of expression and journalistic independence.
The enactment, among other things,
(a) applies in respect of a digital news intermediary if, having regard to specific factors, there is a significant bargaining power imbalance between its operator and news businesses;
(b) authorizes the Governor in Council to make regulations respecting those factors;
(c) specifies that the enactment does not apply in respect of “broadcasting” by digital news intermediaries that are “broadcasting undertakings” as those terms are defined in the Broadcasting Act or in respect of telecommunications service providers as defined in the Telecommunications Act ;
(d) requires the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) to maintain a list of digital news intermediaries in respect of which the enactment applies;
(e) requires the Commission to exempt a digital news intermediary from the application of the enactment if its operator has entered into agreements with news businesses and the Commission is of the opinion that the agreements satisfy certain criteria;
(f) authorizes the Governor in Council to make regulations respecting how the Commission is to interpret those criteria and setting out additional conditions with respect to the eligibility of a digital news intermediary for an exemption;
(g) establishes a bargaining process in respect of matters related to the making available of certain news content by digital news intermediaries;
(h) establishes eligibility criteria and a designation process for news businesses that wish to participate in the bargaining process;
(i) requires the Commission to establish a code of conduct respecting bargaining in relation to news content;
(j) prohibits digital news intermediary operators from acting, in the course of making available certain news content, in ways that discriminate unjustly, that give undue or unreasonable preference or that subject certain news businesses to an undue or unreasonable disadvantage;
(k) allows certain news businesses to make complaints to the Commission in relation to that prohibition;
(l) authorizes the Commission to require the provision of information for the purpose of exercising its powers and performing its duties and functions under the enactment;
(m) requires the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to provide the Commission with an annual report if the Corporation is a party to an agreement with an operator;
(n) establishes a framework respecting the provision of information to the responsible Minister, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, while permitting an individual or entity to designate certain information that they submit to the Commission as confidential;
(o) authorizes the Commission to impose, for contraventions of the enactment, administrative monetary penalties on certain individuals and entities and conditions on the participation of news businesses in the bargaining process;
(p) establishes a mechanism for the recovery, from digital news intermediary operators, of certain costs related to the administration of the enactment; and
(q) requires the Commission to have an independent auditor prepare a report annually in respect of the impact of the enactment on the Canadian digital news marketplace.
Finally, the enactment makes related amendments to other Acts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bittle.

Now, this is the end of our round. It's going to be the end of the meeting. I want to thank the witnesses for coming and answering some pretty hard questions. I'm sorry if I pushed you to be concise, but we wanted to get as many questions and answers in as possible to inform this committee. I want to thank you all very much for attending and for actually taking, as I said, some pretty difficult questions.

Before I adjourn, I just want to remind the committee that the deadline—as was unanimously approved by this committee—for amendments for Bill C-18 is at 5 p.m. on Thursday, November 10. That's just a reminder. We will move to clause-by-clause on Friday, November 18.

Thank you all very much.

This meeting is adjourned.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

Can you speak to how Bill C-18 fundamentally changes this power imbalance by leaving the determination of fair value to the negotiation?

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Let me say this. I agree that Facebook and Google should be compensating other media in this country. I totally agree with you.

Tell me, why did Bell Media shut Prince Albert? It had 85 Unifor members in Prince Albert years ago. It is down to one reporter now. It shut down CKOS Yorkton. It's down to one reporter when it had over 40 people.

Now we're going to give them money. For what? Are they going to reopen Prince Albert and Yorkton, or is the head office in Montreal going to decide it will just take the money and decide where to put it?

I can tell you, and Unifor knows very well, that there will be no more jobs in Prince Albert. There will be no more additional jobs in Yorkton. I don't know what Bell Media is going to do with the money it will get from Facebook and Google, but as a long-time Unifor member, I'm going to tell you I don't see Prince Albert opening up a full newsroom, nor do I see Yorkton opening up.

You're responsible for this because Unifor is fighting for members. Can you not see what I've been saying in the last several months here with Bill C-18? This bill will destroy medium and small companies in this country.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My questions will be for Randy Kitt of Unifor.

Tell me again why CBC, Bell and Rogers should be involved in Bill C-18? CBC got $1.2 billion this year in funding, plus yesterday, in the fall economic statement, we heard that they're getting an additional $42 million. The stock price today for Bell Media, which I worked for for 39 years, is $61.35. For Rogers, the stock price today is $41.73.

Why would we allow these three media conglomerates into this bill? You know and I know—because you're with Unifor, and I was with Unifor for decades—that Bell Media is shutting radio stations down by the month, and yet they could be on the receiving end of Bill C-18. So why is that fairer to the rest of the media in this country trying to compete with Bell, Rogers and CBC?

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

My next set of questions will be for Mr. LaRose. I've asked everyone these questions—well, almost everyone.

Why is it important not to give in to threats from the big tech companies over the implementation of Bill C‑18?

Then there's the whole issue of definitions. I understand very well what you're suggesting when, with respect to first nations and Indigenous journalists or media sources, you're saying that the definition must be more in line with community needs.

Do you believe that Bill C‑18 in its current form gives journalists from first nations and Indigenous communities the opportunity to engage in negotiations that could lead to more resources to enable them to practice journalism for those communities?

[Dr. Taylor Owen]

Thanks for the chance to jump in here.

I couldn't agree more that the future of Canadian journalism is going to come from the network of small journalism organizations and journalist start-ups that are innovating the model of news. There's absolutely no doubt about that in my mind.

That being said, the idea that we should be pitting and positioning small publishers and independent publishers against the large publishers as if they have fundamentally different objectives, values and financial interests is, to me, a disappointing side effect of the implication of the debate we've been having about Bill C-18. I think we have to move beyond that.

Are there legitimate concerns that small publishers and independent publishers have raised about this bill? Of course.

I think that lowering the eligibility criteria to include owner-proprietors makes a ton of sense. The allocation of money is also a bit tricky because at the moment, if you have a baseline fair allocation that's prorated by FTE or prorated by the amount of journalism that's being done, the bigger players are going to get more. Now, is that 75% or 60%? I don't know the exact way that was measured and what we're including in that in the PBO estimate. However, of course, the big publishers, if they have a lot more journalists, are going to get a greater percentage of the money. Does that mean that getting a significant subsidy for a one-person or two-person operation isn't a meaningful contribution to that small operation, one that potentially allows them to innovate and continue to grow? I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive.

The final thing that's really important to note is that, right now, the status quo is important because, of those independent publishers, only a small fraction are getting deals right now. I think this scenario, particularly with the collective bargaining provisions and the provisions that allow for people to be added to collective agreements after the fact, would include a much wider range of small organizations, if not anybody who wanted it, just like QCJO does.

[John Nater, Conservative, Perth—Wellington, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair. It is wonderful to be back with the heritage committee this week.

I want to begin by echoing the opening comments of my Conservative colleague Kevin Waugh. Certainly, I think Kevin hit the nail on the head in terms of where we stand on this piece of legislation and our overall support for journalism and news media.

I just might add, since we have Mr. Kitt here from Unifor, that brother Kevin is a 39-year member of Unifor, certainly a long-time participant in the industry. It's really nice to have Kevin's expertise on this committee.

I want to start with Professor Geist. I will also give Professor Owen an opportunity to respond to my first question as well. It's about the idea of innovation within the news media industry. Certainly we've seen, particularly in the last few years, new, different and innovative models in terms of how Canadians receive the news and how different providers provide the news.

I'm curious to hear from both of you—I'll start with Professor Geist—about your thoughts on where innovation fits into Bill C-18 and how that may play a role in terms of new entrants into the news media and journalistic market.

I'll start with you, Professor Geist, and then I'll give Professor Owen a chance to respond as well.

[Julie Dzerowicz, Liberal, Davenport, ON]

Thanks so much, Professor. I wanted to make sure we heard your full response, because I think it was important for us to get all the details. I appreciate your going into depth on that.

You were talking a little bit earlier about how there are currently financial agreements between certain platforms and news publishers, and they're not transparent at all.

When I was doing a little bit of research, a little bit of reading up before I came to the committee today, I was noticing how some previous witnesses were highlighting that there was a bit of doublespeak when it came to this. I think there are certain times when you have your online platforms talking about the financial agreements they've made behind closed doors with news publishers. They call those commercial licensing agreements, but when they are being mandated by law, as we are proposing through Bill C-18, they're calling it a link tax.

What are your thoughts on this?

[The Chair, Liberal, Hedy Fry]

I would like to suggest, though, that we are dealing with Bill C-18 and not with copyright.

Can Mr. Geist answer quickly or succinctly on the topic that we're dealing with, please?

Thank you.

[Dr. Taylor Owen]

I don't think Bill C-18 is designed to, nor will it reverse the trend of how the financial model and design of platforms preference certain types of content over others. That, in and of itself, is its own dynamic that other policy mechanisms can get at, but that is not what this bill is designed to do.

Now, can it help redistribute some of the ad funding dollars that are acquired through the distribution of content—including journalistic content—by these platforms to the publishers that create journalism? Yes, I think it could do that.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

I'll repeat it.

In an article for the daily The Montreal Gazette, you write that web platforms are not designed to give us quality news, but they're instead calibrated to attract as much attention as possible and maximize profits.

Do you feel that Bill C‑18 will reverse this trend that you believe is happening on web platforms?

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Owen.

In an article for the daily The Montreal Gazette, you write that web platforms are not designed to give us quality news, but they're instead calibrated to attract as much attention as possible and maximize profits.

Do you believe that Bill C‑18 could reverse that trend?

Google is saying that the bill will amplify and promote disinformation. Would you agree?

[Dr. Taylor Owen]

I don't want to speak to Bill C-11, as it's not the topic of this discussion, but I don't think that Bill C-18 is, no.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today to take part in this important debate we're having.

I have a fairly simple question for Mr. Owen.

When people criticize the web giants, we hear a lot of people say that they're attacking free speech. We saw it in Parliament when we were considering Bill C‑11, and we discussed it a lot. Here we are doing it again with Bill C‑18.

Mr. Owen, do you share that opinion? Is Bill C‑18 an attack on free speech in Canada?

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

That's fantastic.

Last week, we heard some witnesses—and even testimony from my colleagues across the aisle, the Conservative MPs—advocating for the possible establishment of a fund—a tax on tech giants, I imagine—that they would contribute to where they would be under no regulatory scrutiny.

My understanding is that the government already has a number of measures targeted to the smaller players, in addition to this legislation we're looking for. We have the Canada periodical fund. The local journalism initiative was also mentioned today.

Can you speak to the importance of these other streams of funding for your members, and how they would complement legislation like Bill C-18?