Bill C-18

Online News Act

An Act respecting online communications platforms that make news content available to persons in Canada

This enactment regulates digital news intermediaries to enhance fairness in the Canadian digital news marketplace and contribute to its sustainability. It establishes a framework through which digital news intermediary operators and news businesses may enter into agreements respecting news content that is made available by digital news intermediaries. The framework takes into account principles of freedom of expression and journalistic independence.
The enactment, among other things,
(a) applies in respect of a digital news intermediary if, having regard to specific factors, there is a significant bargaining power imbalance between its operator and news businesses;
(b) authorizes the Governor in Council to make regulations respecting those factors;
(c) specifies that the enactment does not apply in respect of “broadcasting” by digital news intermediaries that are “broadcasting undertakings” as those terms are defined in the Broadcasting Act or in respect of telecommunications service providers as defined in the Telecommunications Act ;
(d) requires the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (the “Commission”) to maintain a list of digital news intermediaries in respect of which the enactment applies;
(e) requires the Commission to exempt a digital news intermediary from the application of the enactment if its operator has entered into agreements with news businesses and the Commission is of the opinion that the agreements satisfy certain criteria;
(f) authorizes the Governor in Council to make regulations respecting how the Commission is to interpret those criteria and setting out additional conditions with respect to the eligibility of a digital news intermediary for an exemption;
(g) establishes a bargaining process in respect of matters related to the making available of certain news content by digital news intermediaries;
(h) establishes eligibility criteria and a designation process for news businesses that wish to participate in the bargaining process;
(i) requires the Commission to establish a code of conduct respecting bargaining in relation to news content;
(j) prohibits digital news intermediary operators from acting, in the course of making available certain news content, in ways that discriminate unjustly, that give undue or unreasonable preference or that subject certain news businesses to an undue or unreasonable disadvantage;
(k) allows certain news businesses to make complaints to the Commission in relation to that prohibition;
(l) authorizes the Commission to require the provision of information for the purpose of exercising its powers and performing its duties and functions under the enactment;
(m) requires the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation to provide the Commission with an annual report if the Corporation is a party to an agreement with an operator;
(n) establishes a framework respecting the provision of information to the responsible Minister, the Chief Statistician of Canada and the Commissioner of Competition, while permitting an individual or entity to designate certain information that they submit to the Commission as confidential;
(o) authorizes the Commission to impose, for contraventions of the enactment, administrative monetary penalties on certain individuals and entities and conditions on the participation of news businesses in the bargaining process;
(p) establishes a mechanism for the recovery, from digital news intermediary operators, of certain costs related to the administration of the enactment; and
(q) requires the Commission to have an independent auditor prepare a report annually in respect of the impact of the enactment on the Canadian digital news marketplace.
Finally, the enactment makes related amendments to other Acts.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Thank you, Mr. Coteau.

I have a little note for the witnesses in the room: you don't need to do anything with the microphones, because the technician looks after turning them on at the right time.

I will now take my turn to speak, if I may.

My question is for Mr. McKay.

If Bill C‑18 passes, how much will it cost me, as a member of the public or a consumer, to access a page via Google? Would there be a charge to me?

[Brian Myles]

I perfectly understand the question, but I'm not allowed to give an answer regarding the amounts. Those were two private corporations that made confidential deals.

However, I can state that Le Devoir was profitable before those deals, and that the secret of our success relies on a strategy to diversify our revenues. We don't rely on a single source. This is why I stress the emergency or the need for the media industry to think at a higher level that only Bill C-18.... Think about your business model, and think about the whole stream of revenues that you can gather from your audience. So—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

It should, because it does in my province. It would be higher. It could even be 80% to 20% against Bill C-18, because they don't have two people on staff right now.

I want to go to Le Devoir.

Mr. Myles, you've already made the agreements with MSN, Apple TV+, Meta and Google. How much did you reap out of those, since you have said you've been profitable for the last six years? With Bill C-18, as you know, it's all in secret. Can you please supply some numbers, since you've already had the agreements with Meta and Google? Give the committee, if you don't mind, some numbers that we can chew on. What did you get from Google and Meta to supply your organization with a profit?

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

I've watched the last couple of years major organizations like Torstar buy small and medium companies, and then close them a year later—side deals—so they take their competitors out just like that. We've seen it in the Maritimes, and we've seen it here in Ontario. We've seen it all over this country. The big get bigger. They buy small and medium newspapers and then six to eight months down the road they close them.

It's interesting, Mr. Julian, that you talk about.... In our party, we represent everybody and that's why we're concerned with Bill C-18. Steve Nixon was here, from the Saskatchewan Weekly Newspapers Association. Probably half of my small newspapers in Saskatchewan don't qualify for Bill C-18. They will go under. I don't have to tell you that one of the newspapers sold for a dollar in my province recently. There is no value in small and medium newspapers in Saskatchewan, so how is Bill C-18...?

I'll ask the Alberta Weekly Newspapers Association this, because in your province there's a split. You may want Bill C-18, but I look at other owners in your province who wouldn't be eligible for any of this money, so how do you speak on behalf of everyone in the province of Alberta with Bill C-18?

Mr. Jamison or Mr. Merrell, go ahead.

[Kevin Desjardins]

The positive consequences would include keeping newsrooms open across Canada, whether they are large, medium-sized or small broadcasters, or even hiring journalists in those newsrooms.

If the bill were not passed, those newsrooms would have even more difficulties. As has been said several times today, newsrooms are going through a crisis right now. That is why it is important to us that Bill C‑18 be passed.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

I have a question for Kevin Desjardins from the Canadian Association of Broadcasters.

If Bill C‑18 were passed, what would that mean for CAB members? If it were not passed, what would the consequences be for them?

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Bill C‑18 is therefore not a cure-all for journalism, but there are still measures that we should keep in place for media that are more vulnerable at the present time.

[Brian Myles]

I am going to add to what Mr. Jamison said earlier. I belong to the school of thought that wants a bundle of measures to support the news media. We didn't say it, but we believe that all of the federal programs contained in the Budget Impementation Act, 2019, No. 1, should be retained, even if Bill C‑18 were passed.

The model applied under Bill C‑18, referred to as the Australian model, compensates the news media based on digital coverage or number of journalists in a newsroom. Ultimately, it is difficult to support and accept for small weekly papers, for small publications and for emerging players, which do not have a big market position or broad digital coverage and which have small newsrooms. Those media may be disappointed with Bill C‑18.

That is why we have to reform the Local Journalism Initiative, or LJI. I have been on the jury, and we did our best based on our knowledge and the parameters we had. By force of circumstances, the program benefited a number of companies that were national players and were very well established in their market. To be completely transparent, I have to say that Le Devoir has been able to fund positions using the LJI. I believe this program could be reformed to ensure that it places greater priority on small players and on emerging players. The question of the number of paid jobs in a newsroom should also be reviewed. The LJI could help to encourage more innovation and the growth of publications in fragile markets. I think we could produce a better LJI that was targeted to the needs of local communities.

[The Vice-Chair, Bloc, Martin Champoux]

Earlier, I heard one of the speakers talk about the Local Journalism Initiative. I know you are on a jury that evaluates the projects submitted under that program. We often hear certain people say that small players might be at a disadvantage in negotiations, in the context of the legislative measures that will result from the passage of Bill C‑18.

Does this kind of program have to be reviewed to make sure that the small players in the media industry are not continually trying to survive, and are instead able to regain a bit of vigour? How do you see that?

[Evan Jamison]

I'm sorry.

It is really difficult as to how you get below that two-journalist threshold. We understand the difficulties of how you keep some limitations on a program so that you are trying to deal with quality news operations. I don't know if we have a good answer on how you actually deal with really small operators under a Bill C-18 type of scenario, other than using these other programs that have been in existence and that have helped these operations survive.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Myles.

I'm now going to turn to Mr. Jamison.

Thank you so much for being here. I'd be interested in knowing which publication, which newspaper, your family has been involved with for three generations.

Also, I deeply appreciate your comments around Bill C-18. What I gather from both your appearance and the appearance of the Saskatchewan Weekly Newspapers Association is that there is broad support in Alberta and Saskatchewan for moving ahead with Bill C-18, including other measures, and we certainly understand that. Your point about how time is of the essence is extremely important.

This is a message, of course, for my Conservative colleagues: When they have newspapers representing about half of their caucus supporting Bill C-18, I would hope they would be on board as well.

You raised the issues both of transparency and of not leaving out smaller publications. What amendments would you suggest in terms of the bill to ensure that very small community publications are included? Should the threshold of two journalists be lowered so that community newspapers at all levels, even in small communities, can benefit?

[Colin McKay]

The legislation before us addresses a policy challenge that was identified two years ago: the threat to existing journalism organizations in Canada. It attempts to create a regulatory framework to address that.

We heard today, from the other witnesses, that there are many strategies and possible solutions to help bridge into a future generation of journalism.

Not only is Google an advertising platform, but we're also a partner with journalists. Through our Google news initiative, we are working with them, as Mr. Myles described, to understand how readers are changing their behaviours, and how to capture revenue and information from that behaviour. For us, Bill C-18 addresses an immediate problem, but, as Mr. Scott identified, it does not solve for the future.

That's the challenge before you today.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Mr. McKay, my last question for you has to do with this idea that Bill C-18 would level the playing field. That's one of the things the minister is trying to promote as his messaging or his talking points with this. However, we've heard subsequent testimony that this is actually not the case. For example, Jen Gerson of The Line said that Bill C-18 will actually “favour incumbent media players over innovative models, small outlets and news start-ups.” In other words, it will continue to award the big players or legacy media with a whole lot of money, but local newspapers and smaller sources of media, particularly those with fewer than two full-time employees, will be put at a great disadvantage, so in fact it doesn't level the playing field.

I realize you're not in that business. You're the tech company that is going to help promote these individuals or give access to their news sources, but I'm wondering if you can give your thoughts on this, as well as the possibility of this bill doing.... I guess I want you to discuss or talk to me about tipping the scales and what this legislation will do to facilitate greater favour towards legacy media and perhaps a disadvantage to the smaller guys.

[Colin McKay]

I've tried to make the point today that there are some very broad terms with little definition contained within Bill C-18 that rely upon regulation and interpretation by the regulator. When we, as a company and a platform that serves billions of clicks to Canadians a day, evaluated that, we came to the conclusion that there are immediate implications of how the legislation is written.

It's always preferable that legislation provide clarity and direction rather than leaving it to interpretation by the regulator, especially when we're talking about a situation where you could have the amplification and promotion of misinformation or even disinformation, and certainly when you're talking about the concerns that have been raised by the other journalism organizations on this panel, which speak to innovation, capturing Canadian audiences and generating new revenue models.

[Colin McKay]

Thank you very much for the question.

I'll start off by underlining that we share the same spirit of ensuring a sustainable news industry in Canada, both today and in the future. We agree with many of the observations made by my fellow witnesses.

To the question you're asking, in terms of payment for links, the legislation specifically creates an obligation based on making links to journalism sites available, and that creates the structure upon which Bill C-18 is built. There is difference among the department and the minister and then platforms on whether that constitutes a link tax, but I would underline that it confers value to links and then creates an incentive for publications to look for the repetition and promotion of links, which feeds into the conversation about what exactly is defined as an eligible news business.

To your second point, I will say that we are here because we want to participate in a thorough conversation about the details of this legislation so that it can move forward and be implemented in a way that achieves the public policy goals. That includes hearing from the minister and hearing from other stakeholders in future meetings.