Bill C-235

Building a Green Prairie Economy Act

An Act respecting the building of a green economy in the Prairies

This enactment requires the minister responsible for economic development in the Prairie provinces, in collaboration with the Minister of the Environment, the Minister of Transport, the Minister of Industry, the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food, the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Natural Resources, to develop a framework for local cooperation and engagement in the implementation of federal programs across various sectors to build a green economy in the Prairie provinces.

[Dan Mazier, Conservative, Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming out here today.

Mr. Carr, the author of this bill, admitted that he had not consulted with the premiers of the provinces that this bill specifically impacts. We also heard at the last meeting that the municipalities in Saskatchewan had not been consulted on Bill C-235.

Mr. Carr also noted that this bill does not have the endorsement of any municipality. It does not have the endorsement of any provincial minister or premier and it does not have the endorsement of any first nation. He also noted that there are zero petitions of support from the public on this bill.

Mr. Masterson, how important is it to ensure that stakeholders directly impacted by legislation are consulted with, and do you see any potential risks with passing legislation that does not have the support of the people it directly impacts?

[Cathy Heron, President, Alberta Municipalities]

Hello. My name is Cathy Heron and I am the president of Alberta Municipalities. I'm also the mayor of the city of St. Albert, which is just north of Edmonton. About 67,000 people live in my community, so at a federal level, we're considered a small community.

Alberta Municipalities is an association that represents Alberta's cities, towns, villages, summer villages and specialized municipalities. We represent the communities in which more than 85% of Albertans live. I'd really like to thank you for inviting me to present here today, although much like Mr. McGowan, I wish I were in Ottawa with you. Next time I will be, hopefully.

At the beginning of October, five municipal associations representing Canada's prairie provinces met in Edmonton to discuss issues of common interest. In attendance were Alberta Municipalities; the Rural Municipalities of Alberta; Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities, SUMA, which is the urban association in Saskatchewan; and of course the Association of Manitoba Municipalities, which represents all municipalities in Manitoba.

During our discussions, we talked about issues that Bill C-235 addresses. I have to be very clear that I don't speak for the other associations, but I do think that the discussions we had will really help to improve this bill before it goes back to the House of Commons.

First, Mr. Chair, I would like to speak to subclause 3(1) of the bill, the “Development” section.

The language in this section speaks to the creation of a green economy in Canada's prairie provinces. This seems to suggest that prairie provinces do not currently have a green economy. However, during my meetings with the leaders of the prairie municipal associations, we discussed many green innovations in our respective provinces, including examples from agriculture, solar energy, oil and gas, and waste management sectors. The language in this bill would be more accurate if it referred to “strengthening” or “supporting” a green economy in the Prairies. We are very much already heading down this path, but it is agreed that further federal support is needed and would be more than welcomed. I don't believe any government anywhere has ever created an economy. That only happens with the full involvement of private industry. It is the government's role to create a business-friendly environment, and then businesses move the economy forward.

I'm going to move on to the “Consultation” subclause of this bill.

This subclause speaks to engaging provincial governments, indigenous communities and the private sector to help develop a green economy in the Prairies. Unfortunately, one of the major gaps in this subclause is that you've left out municipalities. I don't believe the Minister of Industry would succeed in the implementation of this framework without consultation with municipalities. Therefore, I ask that municipal governments be included in subclause 3(2) of this bill. I believe that was probably the intent. I've heard a lot of talk today about local, and that's exactly what we are—local government. Of course, you've invited me here today, so I do believe the intent is there, but it would be nice to have it included.

In subclause 3(3), the “Content” section, the bill speaks to prioritizing green projects and integrating more green energy into agriculture, forestry, manufacturing and tourism sectors. This section also speaks to the establishment of programs and projects that would stimulate a green economy and ensure that infrastructure projects incorporate climate change mitigation. These are all areas I was glad to see integrated into the bill.

Paragraphs 3(3)(a) and 3(3)(b), however, leave a lot to be desired. Paragraph 3(3)(a) is worded in a way that indicates that we don't have public transit in the prairie provinces. I can't speak for my counterparts in Saskatchewan or Manitoba, but I can assure you that Alberta has public transit. While we would benefit from more funding and support, it definitely does exist. We have 18 municipalities in Alberta operating their own local transit authorities. Approximately 3.1 million Albertans live in those 18 municipalities. Those 18 communities don't include the various not-for-profit and volunteer-operated transit systems in smaller communities, which help seniors or people living with disabilities continue to reside in their community.

I would encourage the committee, through the chair, to consider amending this language to acknowledge that we have transit in the Prairies and that the framework considered in the bill would work with municipalities to improve and strengthen municipal public transit.

We know that other models of public transit exist besides the ones that currently work in large centres. Those different models that exist in smaller communities need to be considered and funded. These include ride-sharing programs, not-for-profit models and on-demand solutions. The town of Okotoks in Alberta, for example, launched an on-demand transit system that has been so successful that it won the minister's award for transportation innovation. Okotoks is just south of Calgary, and I think their population is less than 30,000 people.

I'd also like to adjust paragraph 3(3)(b) of the bill since it fundamentally misrepresents the role the energy industry will play in the move to a net-zero economy. Instead of “retraining” people who currently work in the oil and gas industry, this section should speak to leveraging their expertise to implement an emission-reducing technology.

In my region, we have what is known as the Alberta Industrial Heartland group. This group has made a very strong business case for hydrogen's role in our future, and I'm talking about blue hydrogen from methane. This business case has been so strong that billions of dollars have been invested into the region so that we can be among the first to produce hydrogen at a commercial scale, because there is a worldwide demand for low-emission energy sources. Alberta is also piloting hydrogen into residential natural gas systems to lower the emissions from heating our homes.

These are just two examples of how the oil and gas industry is playing an integral role in moving Canada towards a net-zero or low-carbon economy.

I would like to thank the chair and the committee for their time today. Thank you for considering municipal perspectives as you work to improve this bill. Alberta Municipalities hopes there will be other opportunities to provide input, feedback and advice in the future.

[Gil McGowan, President, Alberta Federation of Labour]

Good afternoon.

My name is Gil McGowan. I'm the elected president of the Alberta Federation of Labour. The AFL is the largest worker advocacy group in Alberta, representing more than 170,000 unionized workers in both the public and private sectors, including thousands of people who work in oil and gas and in oil and gas-related construction.

I'm here to support Bill C-235 because it would provide an organized and constructive framework to get Prairie folks talking about the unfolding global energy transition—and, man, do we need to talk. As it stands right now, rational discussion on these issues is being deliberately blocked and shut down.

Instead of helping citizens of Alberta and Saskatchewan prepare themselves for a world that's changing fast, far too many conservative politicians from our region are using these issues to sow misinformation and whip up anger for their own political gain. They say that anyone who doesn't agree with them is trying to shut down our resource industries. They say that an effort to plan for the future that might look even a little different from our past is an attack on our way of life in the Prairies. They even suggest that you're not a real Albertan if you don't join them in defending and doubling down on the status quo.

Frankly, I call BS on all of it. I'm as Albertan as you can get. I grew up on a farm in rural Alberta. I went to school in Alberta. I raised my family in Alberta. I'm also proud of our oil and gas industry. It's the engine of our economy and has brought us unprecedented prosperity. Alberta workers, the folks I represent, built it and maintained it, and we are proud of that fact.

However, we also know that change is coming. We know that we can and should prepare and plan for it. We know that if we don't, we could be left behind. This is why I support this bill. We need platforms for all the diverse voices from the Prairies to be heard.

For the Conservative members around this committee table, please stop. Please stop pretending that you speak for all western Canadians. You don't. Stop trying to drown out other western voices. We deserve to be heard just as much as you. Stop trying to demonize us. We're just as much real westerners as you are.

To give you a sense of what could be brought to the table should this government create the framework for consultation contemplated by Bill C-235, I refer all of you to a report that the AFL released in Calgary last week. We call it “Skate to Where the Puck is Going”.

Our report is not an emission reduction strategy, a climate leadership plan or a green new deal. It's certainly not a plan to shut down our resource industries or end our western way of life. Instead, it's just the opposite. It lays out a bold and ambitious plan for the Alberta economy, a plan that would preserve existing jobs in oil and gas, create 200,000 new jobs both within the oil and gas sector and beyond it, and set us on a path for continued prosperity in a changing world.

Significantly, our plan for adapting the Alberta economy is similar to plans released by Alberta business groups like the Business Council of Alberta and Calgary Economic Development. These are the kinds of western voices that are currently being drowned out. They are also the kinds of voices that, for the sake of our future prosperity in western Canada, desperately need to be heard.

That's why we support this bill. Please provide a platform for the western voices who are currently being drowned out.

Thank you.

[Bronwyn Eyre]

In fact, I think it would help if Bill C‑235 referred to working together with respect to the laws and regulations that already exist.

Instead of starting fresh in Bill C-235 and saying that now, for these enumerated areas, from tree planting to the rest, we are going to mandate implementation—which sounds pretty top-down—but we're going to then consult on that mandated implementation, it seems to me that it would be more helpful, I think, to say.... There are dozens of top-down regulations, policy mandates and laws on the books, from the federal fuel standard to clean electricity regulations to holding on to our carbon tax money to the rest. It's almost difficult to keep track of all the federal programs on the books that are in that mandate to provinces.

I think it would be helpful, in light of all of these—from the federal fuel standard to the carbon tax to the methane—to say that we're going to share data, we're going to talk to communities, we're going to talk to ministers. We're going to lay all these things on the table, literally and figuratively, and we're going to figure out how we can actually work together in a real way and in an apples to apples way.

I bring up methane, for example, because it was “Reduce it by 75%. Thanks for doing 50%, but we raise you to 75%”. We provide our numbers, but where are your numbers?

It seems to me that we don't need a Bill C-235 to say that collaboration should start now around new areas, new infrastructure and new projects. I think it's really about stopping where we are, pausing and going back and talking through everything that has been imposed till now.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Eyre, when you were Minister of Energy and Resources in your government, you said that the costs associated with the green transition were a major obstacle. You were concerned about the costs in terms of lost jobs and lost revenue if the transition happened too quickly. You had indicated that there was a need for grassroots consultation.

In theory, Bill C‑235 takes a step in that direction. It aims to establish programs and projects that stimulate a green economy to take into account the local situation, in addition to engaging local businesses, governments and civil society organizations. I am referring here to section 3 of the bill.

Doesn't this bill help to address some of your concerns? Would it be an interesting step forward?

[Bronwyn Eyre]

Well, it's a shame that the tone of the bill is so top-down. I guess I would say that there's nothing stopping ministers right now from sharing their methane data with us.

We don't need Bill C-235, surely, to work collaboratively with provinces on things of joint interest. As I say, the data isn't being provided on methane. I don't think we need Bill C-235 to mandate anything when that's just what honourable partners do.

[Bronwyn Eyre]

Well, I've said through the remarks this morning that one thing that's concerning about the bill is the top-down name, the top-down tone, and the implementation of we're not quite sure what. It's the vagueness, frankly. It's both the vagueness and the prescriptiveness, if that makes sense. It's the prescriptiveness of tone and the vagueness of purpose.

I think we've seen this movie so many times before in Saskatchewan with, as I said, the funds, the priorities, the fostering and the strings that come with those efforts. Unfortunately, a mistrust has built up. In the context of what the premier was trying to highlight last week, which is around our jurisdiction and the economic harm of some of these policies, I think the alarm bells go off when we read titles like the one for Bill C-235. We wonder what it means and what it will mean. We've seen, for example, a movement around capping oil and increasing methane reduction caps, and turning on a dime on that, as I've referenced. What does this mean, and where are they coming next?

One of your committee members referenced our amazing story in agriculture. Of course, we're very concerned that the federal government is now shifting to a policy against that as well. It affects growth, it affects our economic potential and it affects our exclusive jurisdictions.

[Michael Kram, Conservative, Regina—Wascana, SK]

How do you see federal Bill C-235 fitting in with Premier Moe's plan to defend Saskatchewan's economic autonomy?

[Bronwyn Eyre]

It's a very good question, and I'm going to use a very specific example to answer, because we want to make sure we're trying to be constructive about what could help the relationship.

I often use the example of our methane plan. The Province of Saskatchewan has federal equivalency for methane. People don't really know that, but we do. We worked very hard for two years to negotiate with the federal government in good faith. We got equivalency. Our methane plan has been approved, as I say, and the federal government has signed off on it. The problem is that they don't share any data with us.

I, in my former role, raised this issue with Minister Wilkinson, and he said it made sense that ECCC should share data with us. We had a plan and we lowered methane by 50%. Minister Steven Guilbeault tweeted his congratulations, and we appreciated that, but it was like “Congratulations, Saskatchewan. You've lowered methane by 50%. Now we'll raise that reduction to 75%.”

However, we don't see any of the numbers. Are the models they're imposing on us from Texas or Alberta? We don't know. We get a portion of the data, but we don't get the full data. How can you not be cynical about a partnership in which you're not really partners because the numbers on which the new strictures being imposed are based are not being shared with you?

Therefore, to your question about whether the consultation is dysfunctional, I would say, based on that very real example, unfortunately, yes. We actually worked hard together to get to a point, and then the game is constantly changed. The numbers are constantly changed. The goals are always changed.

We worked hard to reduce methane, to the point where we were congratulated federally on our efforts. When we talk about Bill C-235, then, what are the new expectations going to be, and what strings are going to be attached, and how is it going to impact our sectors?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for appearing this morning and joining our committee.

I'm going to move to Bill C-235 specifically. I wonder if you had any thoughts about the implementation schedule that is now being suggested, which is 12 months instead of 18 months. Do you have an opinion on that?

I'll get to some other questions, but this is one thing that the Honourable Mr. Carr presented in changing the timeline. I wonder what your thoughts are on that, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome, everyone. It's good to see everyone after constituency week.

Welcome to meeting number 38 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, June 1, 2022, the committee is meeting to study Bill C-235, an act respecting the building of a green economy in the Prairies.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022.

For this first hour of committee, we have the honour of having Madame Bronwyn Eyre, Minister of Justice and Attorney General for the Government of Saskatchewan. Welcome, Madame Eyre. It's a pleasure to have you.

Without further ado, I'll cede the floor to you for five minutes, more or less.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will take advantage of your generosity.

Ms. Ness, paragraph 3(3)(c) of Bill C‑235 says that nuclear energy would be considered. Are you in favour of nuclear energy development on the prairies?

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

My questions are for Ms. Seagrave.

My understanding is that your organization provides critical strategic investment advice and services to business developers of clean, green and sustainable technologies. In your opinion, what are the biggest hurdles faced by new enterprises entering the clean energy sector?

The second part of my question is, can you tell us how Bill C-235 will have a positive effect in addressing those challenges?

[Raymond Orb, President, Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities]

Good afternoon.

My name is Ray Orb. I am the president of the Saskatchewan Association of Rural Municipalities, known as SARM.

I was born and raised and live in the rural community of Cupar, northeast of Regina, which has a population of about 625 people.

I'd like to thank the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology for the opportunity to share our association's thoughts as it studies Bill C-235, an act respecting the building of a green economy in the Prairies.

Our membership is made up of Saskatchewan's rural municipal governments. SARM has been the voice of rural Saskatchewan for over 100 years. Today, I'll share the perspective of those we represent by sharing our thoughts on how the proposed bill would impact our livelihood in rural Saskatchewan.

SARM has considered the proposed legislation and does not support it. Upon review, we determined that it will not further the best interests of rural Saskatchewan.

The bill proposes that a consultation framework be built to facilitate the building of a green economy across all prairie provinces. It assumes the interests of all those residing in these provinces to be the same, and that simply isn't going to work. Issues facing rural Saskatchewan are unique to us.

Rural Saskatchewan's economic success and livelihood are a reality because of the uniquely rich and vast landscape it houses. It boasts a wealth of access to some of the most arable land for growing food and to resource-rich lands that house critical natural reserves that the world needs. This has allowed the agriculture, mining and energy sectors to flourish, sectors that could not flourish in an urban setting or, equally, in all prairie provinces. They need access to rural Saskatchewan's unique land base.

When rural Saskatchewan has a problem or requires federal or provincial collaboration, we would like to work with government directly. We don't want to be trapped in a bureaucratic framework that attempts to treat everyone the same. Some of our unique issues include making sure our key sectors aren't stifled by trade agreements, taxes and world politics, while also ensuring access to efficient rail, road and broadband and cellular infrastructure. Issues like the ones facing rural Saskatchewan are not necessarily shared by those living in Calgary, Winnipeg or even Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

In rural Saskatchewan, we are making excellent headway on our own solutions for a greener economy, and we don't require a federal framework.

Saskatchewan has some of the greenest agriculture producers in the world. Most Saskatchewan cropland is zero-till. This means that our producers use a low-disturbance direct seeding system. Not only does zero-till agriculture sink more carbon, but it also reduces soil erosion and the amount of fuel required on farms.

The Saskatchewan Soil Conservation Association has been studying carbon sequestration for years. Through their research, they found that Saskatchewan producers sequester 9.64 million tonnes of new carbon dioxide every year over 28 million acres.

Our province announced its own target for renewable energy use in 2015 and set it at 50% by 2030. To help accelerate this target, SARM partnered with the First Nations Power Authority to provide a tool to help our municipalities and first nations navigate the site selection process for renewable energy projects.

As you can clearly see, rural Saskatchewan has unique issues and is already implementing unique solutions, so SARM is opposed to this bill. In essence, this new legislation would try to implement a one-size-fits-all framework that is not going to work.

In closing, on behalf of Saskatchewan's RMs and rural Saskatchewan, I thank the standing committee again for the opportunity. I look forward to continued dialogue and to the upcoming question period.

Thank you.

[Meaghan Seagrave, Executive Director, Bioindustrial Innovation Canada]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the committee for the invitation to speak today.

My name is Meaghan Seagrave, and I'm the executive director of Bioindustrial Innovation Canada, also known as BIC.

Before going any further, I would like to acknowledge that I'm joining you today from the traditional, unceded and unsurrendered territory of the Wolastoqiyik, Mi'kmaq and Passamaquoddy peoples here in New Brunswick.

I'm happy to speak to you about Bill C-235. BIC supports this bill, as it complements our existing work as a not-for-profit and national business accelerator, focused on supporting developers of clean, green and sustainable technologies here in Canada. BIC is leading Canada's circular economy development as the only business accelerator in Canada focused on providing critical strategic investment advice and services to those businesses and developers in the green sustainable space.

BIC has a long track record of success in identifying and supporting early-stage clean-tech and clean energy companies, by focusing on helping them overcome hurdles to commercialization and allowing them to remain and grow here in Canada. BIC has been involved with companies in various sectors, from battery recovery and resource recycling to the identification and growth of value chains for the country's agricultural and forestry biomass.

To date, BIC has invested in 32 early-stage companies and fostered its own investment fund. In the process, our portfolio companies have created over 5,200 jobs and leveraged an additional $350 million in third party investments. We're on track to document greenhouse gas reductions of over 13 megatons by 2030.

We understand that reaching Canada's net-zero targets will take a nationwide effort and concrete initiatives. The proposed framework that promotes economic sustainability, growth and employment in the Prairies aligns well with BIC's current mission to identify, support and grow sustainable business opportunities across the country. The Prairies have an abundant and sustainable biomass resource, which not only is foundational to Canada's food and protein production, but also provides the building blocks in terms of starches, fibres and oils that are critical to the production of bio-based products.

Bill C-235 has the potential to catalyze those opportunities, particularly those rooted in resource and industrial sectors. By ensuring improved alignment among stakeholders, this bill will further enable the region's green transition, focusing on the role of agriculture in the new prairie economy, as well as Canada's largest emerging circular economy.

This bill will support the building of value chains that connect Canada's agriculture and forestry biomass to the advanced manufacturing of biochemicals, biomaterials and biofuels used across a multitude of industries, providing alternatives for greener application in Canada's automotive, aerospace, construction and energy sectors and successfully stimulating a green economy while helping Canada move towards its net-zero targets.

In summary, supporting this bill will effectively support organizations like BIC by way of programs and products that support early-stage businesses and help them innovate and overcome commercialization hurdles.

Decarbonizing Canada's economy is a long-term objective. BIC wants to ensure that all regions get to benefit from a green economy, especially regions like the prairie provinces, with considerable promise to help Canada move towards its net-zero targets. This bill will help the Prairies attract additional investment and business opportunities while creating the jobs of the future for the region.

Thank you for your time.