Bill C-251

Conservation of Fish Stocks and Management of Pinnipeds Act

An Act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds

This enactment requires the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to develop a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.

Conservation of Fish Stocks and Management of Pinnipeds Act

[Mike Kelloway, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Fisheries]

Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise today to debate private member's Bill C-251, an act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.

Let me start by saying that I appreciate the passion of the member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame on the issue of seal predation. It is something that almost all of us from Atlantic Canada are deeply concerned about, but like most things in the House, it is one where the details really matter.

To date, our approach to pinniped management has focused on a sustainable, well-regulated seal harvest that supports Canada's indigenous, rural, coastal and remote populations. This approach is informed by the best available scientific evidence.

Let us focus on those words: scientific evidence. Would it shock members of the House to learn that the member’s bill does not mention the word “science” once? Perhaps not when you consider that during the time of the last Conservative government, a great deal of cutting and slashing was done in science and to scientists. Indeed, it was what many people in my part of the world called a decade of darkness when it comes to science.

Instead of basing this proposed framework of pinniped management on science, the member suggested an annual census of all pinnipeds. There are 11 different types of pinnipeds in Canada and an annual census would cost the government approximately $30 million a year. I know this was likely not the intent of the member when he wrote the bill, but as I said earlier, in this House details matter, and the bills we pass have consequences.

It is concerning that Bill C-251 does not mention science, not only because of the $30-million-a-year census, but because of our trading partners and what they expect in terms of our management decisions based in science.

Take, for example, the Marine Mammal Protection Act, the MMPA, in the United States. The MMPA contains important measures to reduce the impact of commercial fishing on marine mammals. It is one of the reasons we have worked so hard to protect the endangered North Atlantic right whale and one of my key concerns with the bill.

With no reference to science and an expectation that the government regulate the population of pinnipeds to acceptable levels, this bill could expose Canada and the fish and seafood sector to economic risk that a more protectionist American administration could take advantage of.

Seventy per cent of Canada's fish and seafood exports went to the United States in 2021. I cannot in good conscience support a bill that could create numerous vulnerabilities to this critical industry, an industry that I cherish, that we cherish.

That is why when the sponsor of Bill C-251 moved a motion at the fisheries and oceans committee this past January that we study the issue of pinniped predation, I was pleased to vote for it.

The motion read, in part:

That the committee undertake a comprehensive study of pinnipeds that would examine the ecosystem impacts of pinniped overpopulation in the waters of Quebec, eastern and western Canada; international experience in pinniped stock management; the domestic and international market potential for various pinniped products; social acceptability; and the social cultural importance of developing active management of predation for coastal and first nations communities with access to the resource;

It was to my surprise actually when the member opposite, who said we needed to study this issue in order to address it, came forward with a solution without ever having done the work for it. We would not accept this anywhere else, and it should not fly in Parliament.

There is a clear need for us to grow the market on seal products. I think we would all agree with that. The issue is that last year we had a total allowable catch for harp seals. In 2016. The TAC that year was 400,000 for harp seals, but only 68,317, which is 17% of the quota, were caught. Since 2016, so few have been caught that there no longer is a TAC. In 2021, only 26,545 harp seals, less than half, were caught.

We know that more work needs to be done to address this issue. That is why last month we released the Atlantic Science Seal Task Team report and set out a plan of action on this issue to grow our research capabilities, listen to harvesters and invest in the marketability of seal products.

The right way to address this issue is a whole-of-government approach, which I hope the member opposite will support, rather than through a private member's bill that would have potential serious ramifications.

When we get down to it, the intent of the bill, in my opinion, is flawed. It is not only unnecessary; it is an issue we are already addressing right now in a comprehensive way thanks to the hard work of the Newfoundland and Labrador caucus. We should be talking about how we strengthen the summit that is coming up in the fall, what will come out of the summit and what we are doing to address the report, rather than sending this bill to committee.

Clearly, as has been said before, seals eat fish. They are not vegans. We now have the tools to fill in the knowledge gaps that the task force team identified and invest in the marketability of seal products.

I think we can all agree that we need to tackle this problem thoughtfully, comprehensively, tactically and strategically, with a focus on outcomes, because like everything in the House, the details matter. Sadly, Bill C-251 is just not ready for prime time.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, I am very pleased to represent Nunavut, and I thank my constituents for their continued faith and trust in me to represent them in matters as important as those contained within in this bill.

I take this opportunity to share the meaning of my surname ldlout, pronounced in Inuktitut as illauq. Translated into English, it means “embryo of marine mammals”, like walrus and seals. Indeed, seals have always been important in my life.

Before my main points, I must acknowledge the great work of my colleague, the member for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, who sought my advice on this bill and understands the importance of protecting indigenous people's rights. I must also share my appreciation for the member for Labrador. I have tremendous respect for the effort she has made to destigmatize all seal hunts. I appreciate all her efforts in showing how we all can use seal products in everyday life, including in clothes and jewellery, as a part of our diet and as sources of important vitamins, like omega-3s.

Of course, I thank the sponsor of this bill, the member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, for putting this matter before the House and beginning the dialogue.

l would like to talk about three key points regarding this proposed legislation. First is that seal harvests in Canada by non-indigenous people are as important as seal hunts by indigenous people. Next is my personal belief that wildlife harvesting and management must be founded upon and practised through an indigenous lens. Finally, the sustainable management of our natural resources can and should support local and regional economic development.

To give a brief history, after the drastic impact of the anti-seal hunt campaigns, the next link in this chain of damage to our reliance on the seal hunt has been the many comments that I hear from Qallunaat. While Qallunaat translated into English means “white people”, I will use it for all non-indigenous people.

Basically, what we hear from Qallunaat is that they support the indigenous seal hunt, but they do not support the east coast seal hunt. I am quite sure many Inuit are told this. I am quite sure that many Inuit say that this is just as damaging as the initial anti-seal hunt campaigns that decimated the Inuit economy in the 1980s.

What many people do not realize is that the discrimination against the east coast seal harvest is damaging the opportunities to support the economy of Inuit as well. It should not be this way. We are a large, diverse and rich country with enough for everyone. We should support one another in all matters, including the seal harvest or hunt, and the sustainable management of our fish stocks, other wildlife and other natural resources.

For that reason, I am happy to support those who would be directly affected by this legislation, just as I hope they would support Nunavummiut in our pursuit of a healthy, sustainable and prosperous future, and the successful and sustainable management of our natural resources.

I turn now to the need to use the indigenous lens for better wildlife management.

Throughout Canada's first nations, Inuit and Métis communities, people will find a wealth of local knowledge and traditions related to sustainable living and the harvesting of wildlife. This knowledge and these traditions have helped us successfully and sustainably manage our natural resources for millennia in our territories.

In Nunavut, we have Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit, Inuit traditional knowledge, which is the body of knowledge and unique cultural insights of Inuit regarding the workings of nature, humans and animals. The Nunavut Impact Review Board applied the principles of Inuit Qaujimajatuqangit in its decision-making on economic development projects that impact Nunavummiut and recently rejected phase two of the Mary River Mine's proposal to expand the project, which clearly violated these principles.

I encourage the use of similar local indigenous knowledge and principles elsewhere in Canada and for the east coast seal harvest, in particular. However, there is no mention of such traditional and sustainable practices in this bill, and I worry that if it is passed, it would do nothing more than promote a cull of seals instead of a useful harvest that benefits the local populations while ensuring the sustainability of their way of life moving forward.

Finally, my third point is the importance of sustainable management of our natural resources to support local and regional economic development. This final point is where I think the member's well-intentioned bill is far too narrow in its focus.

In the 1970s and throughout the 1980s and 1990s, individuals and groups targeted the livelihood and well-being of Inuit and others living in the north and mounted a fierce campaign against commercial seal harvests. Markets for seal products in the United States and the European Union were practically eliminated overnight thanks to these well-intended but badly misguided campaigns.

To its credit, in 1985, Greenpeace apologized for the unforeseen and negative impact that these campaigns had upon Inuit and non-Inuit harvesting communities, but the damage done has been lasting and severe. I fear that this bill, if passed, would simply encourage more campaigns against our way of life and inflict even more lasting economic damage on our communities since it would likely result in a simple cull rather than a harvest of seal populations.

I think there is a better approach. We should apply the indigenous lens that I spoke of earlier, which embraces the more modern ecosystem approach, to manage our natural resources. Indeed, the indigenous-led approach and ecosystem approach are practically one and the same. By sustainably managing our precious natural resources, such as the various seal populations in our oceans and the fish they consume, we can build confidence in the international community that we are not wastefully killing animals but ethically harvesting them in a sustainable manner that makes use of every part of these beautiful creatures: the fur to keep us warm, the meat to keep us fed and the omega-3 rich oil and other parts that keep us healthy.

We should be better regulating seal products, creating and growing markets abroad, particularly in Europe and China, and using the trade and sale of these products to help Inuit and non-Inuit northern communities improve their standard of living, while protecting our traditional way of life. As this bill proposes, we should conserve fish stocks as well.

Because of these and other issues with the bill, I will not be voting in support of it, but I want to thank the hon. member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame for sponsoring this legislation and beginning this important dialogue in this 44th Parliament. I hope we can work together to support our communities and work toward successfully managing seal and fish populations in a way that embraces and protects our traditional ways of life and improves the standard of living of those we represent for generations to come.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is a real privilege to stand in support of a colleague who is sitting right in front of me, the member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame. I am honoured to support the bill, and I want to speak to how it would positively impact our northern communities if it passes.

Pinniped harvesting has a long history in Canada, especially for our indigenous and northern communities, and I want to get into exactly that. I will first read one little part of the bill, which explains what we are supporting here tonight. The bill would establish “a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.”

There is a bit of a longer paragraph. Subclause 3(1) of the bill states, “The Minister must, in consultation with representatives of the provincial governments responsible for fisheries, the environment and trade, with Indigenous governing bodies and with other relevant stakeholders, develop a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.”

Many in the House know I have been working on the conservation of threatened stocks, especially when it relates to my home province of British Columbia, but I also have a role as the northern affairs shadow minister, and I am very concerned about the negative effects on those communities.

I am going to speak about, first of all, our indigenous communities. My NDP colleague down the way already referenced the right to harvest pinnipeds, so I am just going to read something out. This is from a government document from 2017. It is a backgrounder for pinniped harvesting. It states, “Nevertheless, subsistence harvests are in effect for these three species because 'Indigenous peoples in Canada have a constitutionally protected right to harvest marine mammals, including seals, as long as the harvest is consistent with conservation needs and other requirements.'”

Supporting the member down the way, we absolutely support those rights, and we support that way of life and the ability to continue on.

We have a long history of harvesting in Canada, and another quote from that same document states, “'[f]or thousands of years, seals have provided food, clothing and heat for people living in challenging northern regions' and continue to do so for many Indigenous peoples and northern communities.” It continues, “In the Arctic, sealing continues to play an important role in Inuit life, which can be seen in 'the rich vocabulary in the Inuktitut language for different species, varieties and characteristics of seals.'”

I think we all recognize this is an important part of culture in our country and it is an important part of our future. Again, the member is wishing to have it come back to the way it once was, but let me speak to the problems with what happened to the industry.

Back in 1972, the U.S. had the Marine Mammal Protection Act, which basically closed out access of the pinniped harvest and pinniped products to the North American market and our American friends. There were huge impacts to that industry. Most of the folks affected were in northern communities and indigenous communities that made their living from harvesting pinnipeds. That was the first blow to the industry.

I am going to get into some numbers in a minute, but I want to talk about the second blow, which was really dramatic. In 2009, we had the European ban on pinniped products. What I am getting at is that, even though we had rights that were protected by our constitution for indigenous communities to harvest pinnipeds, we saw the market absolutely collapse. That really collapsed the entire economy around pinnipeds in this country.

I have some evidence of what happened. In 2004 there was a landed value, which is for Canadian pinniped values. In 2004, it was $14,862,415. By 2006, it had grown to $30 million, and then there was the absolute collapse. By 2015, it had gone down to $1,126,912. It was absolutely a massive collapse of the market.

The member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame is trying to get that industry back on its feet again. The reason we are talking about this tonight, and I am about defending the bill, is the effects of having an out-of-control pinniped population on our coasts.

We have members on all sides of the House that say they care about salmon and southern resident killer whales and all the rest, but guess what eats a lot of fish. Killer whales eat fish too, but when pinnipeds are absolutely collapsing stocks of other fish, sometimes there is not much left for those other species to eat because there is an overpopulation, a massive imbalance in the ecosystem as a result of this harvest basically ceasing to exist. It still happens, but on a much smaller scale.

The member is trying to have an answer to the imbalance in the ecosystem and for an industry that has been flattened and the communities that have been negatively affected by this collapse. How about we do something in Parliament? We have that agreement across the way, but I am hearing from the Liberals and NDP now that they are pulling back their support, which is interesting because this industry is so key in their communities. It is so easy to support, and I am surprised that they would be pulling back their support at this time.

Again, what the member is trying to do is a positive change for not only the pinniped industry but also the communities that benefit from it. I want to read one part of the bill to highlight a specific section for those who say they care about conservation and threatened stocks. Subclause 3(1) reads, “The Minister must, in consultation with representatives of the provincial governments responsible for fisheries, the environment and trade, with Indigenous governing bodies and with other relevant stakeholders develop a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks”, which is the crux of the whole bill.

First of all, we are going to help fish stocks big time. For salmon, we call it the brick wall of pinnipeds on our coastlines, and not many get through. Again, if the government is talking big about conservation and really doing something positive for the ecosystem and for salmon as an example on both coasts, this is the answer to that. The other benefit that benefits both communities in a huge way is that we would get our pinniped industry back again.

My hope is, especially for members affected in Newfoundland and in the north in the territories, which are affected by having a positive pinniped industry, that they will have some really long thoughts about the consideration of supporting the bill. It is great. It is going to be good for every coastline that we have. It will be positive for the communities that reside on the coastlines and in our north.

For the sake of my fellow member on fisheries and oceans, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, my hope is that we can all come to an agreement and support the bill.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Natural Resources and to the Minister of Northern Affairs]

Madam Speaker, there is nothing like a good motion on seals to get some debate going in the House of Commons.

I think this has been the story of our legacy in Canada since the 1980s whenever the word “seal” popped up in the context of Atlantic Canada, northern Canada or Quebec. The fact that people depended upon it for their livelihood or the potential for product has always stirred tremendous amounts of debate. The member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame has stimulated some good debate around seals again.

I am happy to speak to this motion, because I really believe that this bill comes from a place of wanting to do something to protect the ecosystems of the ocean and to build upon a good product that could be a very good source of protein and oil for many around the world. We see that as well. We see that as members. I listened to my colleague, the member for Nunavut, when she spoke very eloquently about the industry. Like me, she grew up in this industry. It has been the source of food, clothing and heat for so many generations and centuries of Inuit people, coastal people and people around different ocean areas of Canada.

Since 1986, we have had more than 20 particular studies, reports and committees on seals, starting with “Seals and Sealing in Canada”. The whole purpose of that first report was to identify the dependency upon on seal and sealing in Canada, and the people who depended on that resource.

Unfortunately, since 1986 nothing has really generated out of the sealing industry because of the activist groups, the protests and animal rights groups that identified indigenous people and people who hunt for seal as barbaric. They were identified as people who had no respect for the ocean or for the environment. That was completely wrong.

Their actions not only caused us to have a problem of the overpredation of seals we have today, but also their actions erased the livelihoods of so many people in northern and coastal communities who depended on the hunt, and so many indigenous people as well.

Today, we have a problem in Canada where our ocean ecosystem is not being protected. Our ocean ecosystem of fish species is being depleted by the overpredation of seals. I want to give some information that comes right from DFO reports. It says that, commercially, in Newfoundland and Labrador, we take a little over 200,000 metric ton of fish in a commercial year in a fishery. Gray seals alone are eating 1.6 million metric tons of fish.

That is 1.6 million metric tons being taken by seals, but only 200,000 metric tons being taken by commercial fishers. That is why we have a problem in the ocean ecosystem. That is why we have capelin stocks that are going down. That is why, for 30 years in Newfoundland and Labrador, we have cod stocks that have not rebuilt. That is why fishermen are constantly sending pictures of crab grounds where crab stocks are falling, but seals are being found with their stomachs full of small crab and full of shrimp. They are consuming the shellfish populations, which is now provoking a decline. Where I live, the most beautiful rivers in the world for salmon, we see seal in the salmon rivers. It is a problem.

I know where my colleague is coming from in identifying the problem and that it needs to be fixed. That is why the minister had the task force on seals. She actually commissioned a number of people across Newfoundland and Labrador. The task force was completed and the recommendations are in. I have to say that she is the first federal fisheries minister I have ever heard stand up and admit that seals eat fish.

At one time we had a minister named John Efford from Newfoundland and Labrador in this honourable House. He was not the minister of fisheries at the time, but he told people over and over again that seals eat fish, that they do not eat turnips. Like my colleague from Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame said, “They don't eat Mary Brown's.” No, they do not. They eat fish. Finally we have a minister who has recognized that and agrees. Now we need to do something about it. The summit that will be launched by the Government of Canada through the minister is to deal with just that.

I support the premise of my colleague's bill. I think it comes from a place of recognition. He recognizes there is a problem, as I do. We also know that we cannot have a bill that talks about managing the industry and that talks about “year-round control of pinnipeds in order to manage their numbers and mitigate the detrimental effect these marine mammals are having” on the ocean. I think that is where my colleague from Nunavut was coming from. Yes, that concerns me as well.

I think that whatever we do has to be based on science. It has to be with input from indigenous people and from the industry. I believe it has to be linked to product development and to markets. That means there is a lot of work to do. I am finally pleased to say that we are prepared to do that work. I am pleased to see that my colleague is interested in working with us to make that happen, as I am pleased to see the member for Nunavut is willing to work with us to make that happen.

I want to appeal to all of those out there who want to act on conservation and who have a conscience when it comes to conservation. We live in a country today where our ocean ecosystem is in danger. Today is World Oceans Day, a day when we stand up to protect the oceans. Since the 1980s, no one has stood up to protect the people who fell through the cracks due to the activism against the seal industry. Our people suffered. They suffered and they suffer today. Today we would have an industry and we would not have an ocean predation problem, but because the activists won out and beat down the ordinary individuals who live in northern indigenous and coastal communities, that did not happen.

Today here in this House we have a problem and we need to deal with that problem. I say to the member opposite that if his bill passes second reading and goes to committee, I will be happy to propose some amendments to the bill that would include consultation with indigenous peoples, that would include the industry and that would make sure that it is based on science.

In the meantime, I will be there to support the Minister of Fisheries in the work that we are doing as a government because it is important work. It will involve engaging the industry. It will involve developing good markets for seal proteins, seal oils and seal products. It will include making sure that we have good products, good markets and a good industry that will support all of the people in Canada who depend upon seals.

For us, seals are sacred, so we take this seriously, but so are our oceans. We need to protect them and create balance. There is a lot of work to do here. I hope that my colleagues will see that important work and support the options that the government has laid out.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Madam Speaker, it is an honour to rise today to speak to Bill C-251 put forward by my friend and colleague, the hon. member for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame.

The hon. member continues important work undertaken by his predecessor, Mr. Scott Simms, who served in the House from 2004 to 2021. In addition to being chair of the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, Mr. Simms was also instrumental in the passage of Bill S-208, in 2017, to establish a national seal products day.

It has been and continues to be an honour to work with the members for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, and I am grateful for their unyielding commitment to conservation and sound fisheries management for indigenous and coastal communities in Newfoundland and Labrador and beyond.

Bill C-251 proposes to establish a requirement for the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to develop a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.

At the outset, I note that this bill's proposed requirement, I believe, is necessitated by the refusal of successive Liberal fisheries ministers to make management decisions needed to conserve and restore Canada's fisheries. In particular, I am talking about fisheries being decimated by populations of pinnipeds, like seals and sea lions, that government inaction has allowed to grow unmanaged.

What is the problem that this bill is seeking to remedy? Well, pinniped populations on Canada's coasts have been allowed to expand unchecked through decades of anti-use and anti-harvest ideologies. As pinniped populations have increased, their impacts, especially predation, have caused a domino effect of imbalances throughout ecosystems and food webs. What my colleague is seeking with this legislation is what I believe all parties want: timely and effective fisheries management to restore balance and to conserve and rebuild Canada's fish stocks.

In the face of sound science, this government has refused to accept or produce a plan to manage pinniped populations that are exacting a great toll on fish stocks, including some that are in critical states. It is as if successive fisheries ministers of this government have chosen to ignore the reality that has been described and defined by scientists, experts, indigenous and non-indigenous fishers and Canadians across our country.

For instance, three years ago, in 2019, the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans, known as FOPO, received testimony from Mr. Robert Bison, a fisheries biologist with the Government of British Columbia. Mr. Bison spoke to the plight of steelhead in B.C. and stated that the “evidence to date suggests that the most likely causes responsible for the decline and survival of abundance include an increase in predation in the inshore marine habitats; increased predation from marine mammals, particularly pinnipeds”.

Mr. Bison went on to testify that all factors of steelhead declines are partially or wholly human-induced effect and that the increase in pinniped populations particularly is largely attributed to marine mammal protection in both Canada and the U.S. He also testified that, in terms of the evidence of causal factors, pinniped predation in the inshore waters actually ranked among the strongest causal factor, not only for steelhead, but for many salmon populations as well.

At the fisheries committee's meeting on June 5, 2019, Dr. Eric Taylor of the University of British Columbia also appeared. In his testimony, Dr. Taylor stated that he supported bold action required to deal with the pinniped issue. He said, “That there may be some uncertainty as to the exact effect of pinnipeds is exactly why bold action is needed.” He want to say, “Instead of residing in this sort of atmosphere of speculation, we can actually provide some management actions to reduce numbers in an experimental approach to try to understand the situation better.”

Here we have two experienced fisheries experts describing to parliamentarians how increased pinniped populations are directly damaging fish populations, including some that are in critical or worse conditions.

At the same meeting in which Mr. Bison and Dr. Taylor provided their testimony, DFO’s director for the Pacific region, Ms. Rebecca Reid, also appeared as a witness and provided testimony that clearly reflected the government’s refusal to manage known and detrimental ecosystem factors, such as pinniped predation in order to support conservation and recoveries of wild fish and marine species.

In her testimony, Ms. Reid told the committee:

In our view, the question about pinnipeds is outstanding. We have done some work. There has been a recent symposium. There is some additional work going on. I would say that the impact of pinnipeds on these species is not entirely clear.

That was three years ago, and the government and its officials continue to stonewall pinniped management actions to save fish populations like Fraser River steelhead and Pacific salmon from being wiped out by out-of-control populations of pinnipeds.

In 2020, Dr. Carl Walters from the University of British Columbia’s Institute for the Oceans and Fisheries appeared at the fisheries committee. Dr. Walters has been doing research on Pacific salmon populations for over 50 years, focused particularly on understanding why there have been severe declines in salmon and herring populations.

Dr. Walters testified how he has come to believe that the declines have been substantially due to massive increases in seal and sea lion populations and their predation impacts as the number of pinnipeds on the Pacific coast today is probably double what it was for the last several thousand years, when first nations people harvested them intensively.

Dr. Walters described how major increases in Steller sea lion populations in B.C. waters outside the Georgia Strait have contributed to Fraser sockeye declines and collapses of two of B.C.’s major herring stocks on the west coast of Vancouver Island and Haida Gwaii. Scientists like Dr. Walters are not only raising the alarm over pinniped populations but they are also proposing viable solutions.

Dr. Walters contributed to one such proposal that he helped the Pacific Balance Pinniped Society develop for commercial and first nations harvesting of seals and sea lions, which is aimed at reducing these pinniped populations and sustaining them at the levels that existed when first nations harvesting maintained balances at ecosystems levels.

As Mr. Bison testified, increases in pinniped populations particularly are largely human induced and attributed to marine mammal protection in both Canada and the U.S. I assume the human decision-makers of the day had good intentions when they introduced protections for marine mammals, but as the decision-makers of today, what are our intentions?

Should we be following science data? Should we take action as pinnipeds in B.C. waters drive our steelhead and salmon populations to extinction? Should we expect the government direction to drive recovery of cod and mackerel stocks in Canada’s Atlantic waters? Should indigenous communities have the right to participate in restoring ecosystem balance through predator management?

From my Conservative colleagues and me, the answers to these four questions are yes, yes, yes and yes. As we see many of Canada's fish stocks continue to decline under the current management regime of preservation based on ideologies instead of conservation based on science, I hope members from all parties will agree that action, not just more studies and talk, needs to happen in our waters to rebuild fish stocks.

I hope hon. colleagues from all parties will support this bill and vote yes, because it is necessary. Timely and effective pinniped management is necessary to restore balance in ecosystems to give our fisheries, the fishers and the communities that depend on them a chance to survive.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleagues for engaging in this very important debate on the future of balance and biodiversity in our ocean ecosystems and the impact that it has on the coastal and indigenous groups who rely on them.

Since the 1970s, pinniped populations have risen exponentially on the east and west coasts of Canada as harvesting virtually ended. The indigenous communities that relied on selling pinniped products saw their markets disappear as a result of foreign sanctions on Canadian seal products and witnessed the destruction of their way of life. As pinniped populations rose, commercial and sport fishers took vast conservation measures, and in fact completely stopped harvesting some species, such as Atlantic salmon and northern cod. These conservation measures have not worked, because pinnipeds know no seasons and have few natural predators.

In Atlantic Canada, for example, Canadian science says that seals consume 24 times the total commercial yearly catch. Norwegian science suggests seals consume double that amount. Seal populations in Atlantic Canada total over 10 million; once, that figure was less than two million. Seals now live in our estuaries, waiting to clean out what is left of our struggling Atlantic salmon.

On the west coast of Canada, seal and sea lion populations have increased tenfold. These populations now consume 50% of young salmon and steelhead as they enter the ocean and millions of returning adults every year. This destroys the livelihoods of indigenous fishers, the vast sport fishing industry and the commercial fishery. Even southern resident killer whales that rely on salmon to survive and feed their young are being out-competed for food.

Bill C-251, an act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds, is meant to address these issues and help restore balance by managing pinniped populations. With indigenous involvement, we can educate the world about the ecological and cultural disaster that is taking place. The framework that gets developed under this bill will ensure that the government works to break down trade barriers to our products so that we can harvest pinnipeds and have full utilization to supply healthy protein, oil and eco-friendly clothing to world markets.

I have listened to questions and concerns raised by my parliamentary colleagues regarding aspects of Bill C-251 and I am open to amendments when this bill gets to committee. Some have suggested that this bill could result in a cull. There is no language in this bill calling for a cull, but at committee the language can be firmed up to ensure this.

Others have mentioned they do not like the clause about anti-predator mechanisms. That clause can go.

The minister said she cannot support the bill because the yearly cost of the census will be over $30 million. The clause calling for a yearly census can be amended out of this bill as well.

A minister from my province recently said that harvesting seals could lead to sanctions against our seafood products; Norway hunts seals and whales and is the second-largest supplier of seafood to the U.S. market, but activists mislead our politicians to believe that if we harvest pinnipeds, we will be sanctioned. Right now Russia is pumping unsanctioned crab into that very same market, so we should have no fear of hollow-threat sanctions.

Another MP told me I should be happy that this bill has raised awareness, that the minister has committed to another study and a conference, and that the bill is not needed now. Awareness will not restore indigenous livelihoods or return balance to our oceans.

Governments come and go. They make promises to take action, to complete more science and the like, but indigenous and fishing industry stakeholders have witnessed the results of years of empty promises, inaction and lack of direction in pinniped management.

Our coastal and indigenous communities are counting on all members of this House to support this bill at second reading so that they can come to the table and fine-tune it at committee. The framework it would create would restore our culture, our livelihoods and the biodiversity of our oceans, and bring this ecological disaster to an end.

I encourage all members of this House to put party politics aside and vote for the greater good of all our coastal and indigenous communities.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The question is on the motion.

If a member of a recognized party present in the House wishes to request a recorded division or that the motion be adopted on division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, I request a recorded division.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Pursuant to order made on Thursday, November 25, 2021, the division stands deferred until Wednesday, June 15, 2022, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

Sitting Suspended

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We will suspend until 6:30 p.m.

(The sitting of the House was suspended at 6:21 p.m.)

(The House resumed at 6:30 p.m.)

The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-19, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on April 7, 2022 and other measures, be read the third time and passed, and of the amendment.