Bill C-354

An Act to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act (Quebec’s cultural distinctiveness and French-speaking communities)

This enactment amends the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act to provide that the Commission must, in furtherance of its objects and in the exercise of its powers, consult with the Government of Quebec or the governments of the other provinces, as the case may be, before regulating aspects of the Canadian broadcasting system that relate to the cultural distinctiveness of Quebec or that concern French-speaking markets.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, none of what Mr. Jivani is talking about right now is within the scope of Bill C-354 and the specific clause that we are supposed to be discussing.

All of the points that Mr. Jivani has raised can be entertained during a variety of other meetings, when the minister comes for supplementaries or when we have the chair of the CBC. He is more than able to put forward motions, as many of his colleagues already have.

This is a meeting that is supposed to deal with C-354. Mr. Jivani says, “Well, we could move more quickly if the officials answered questions,” but that's not actually how our process works. The parliamentary process doesn't work that way. We have officials who are here to answer questions in respect of Bill C-354. That is the agenda, Mr. Chair. That is in your hands, and it's up to you to decide whether or not we are going to have a meeting that deals with Bill C-354 or whether we are all going to just ask whatever questions we feel like asking, because I sure have a whole lot of questions I'd like to ask about other matters, like RT, which I don't think are appropriate for this conversation.

[Jamil Jivani, Conservative, Durham, ON]

I would say that the CRTC Act is a very broad piece of legislation. Bill C-354 is intending to make changes to a very broad piece of legislation. I believe all these questions have been relevant and within the scope of the conversation we're having about telecommunications, broadcasting and the legislation that governs parts of Canada's cultural communities.

I appreciate that some of my colleagues have concerns over time, but I would emphasize once again that if we just got answers to the questions, we would be moving along. If you're concerned about time, let's get some answers on the table.

I also would like to point out that at a time when we have a cost of living crisis, questions to officials of the department about the money being spent by the department seem very relevant to me, and I think these are worthwhile questions to ask.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you.

Mr. Jivani, you've heard several people around the table here this morning. Please limit your questions to Bill C-354. In fact, we're dealing with the Conservative amendment right now, CPC-1. I've asked and you've moved it. Could you please stick to Bill C-354?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

This is a committee, not a circus. Would it be possible to call members to order so that we can stick to the matter at hand, that is to say the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑354, which is a response to a specific request made by the Government of Quebec? Let's stop going around in circles and talking about subjects that have nothing to do with the matter before us today. It is not very complicated; there is only one clause to consider. We can come back to my Conservative colleague's other concerns later, but we have to deal with this in 15 minutes. We are wasting time.

I would ask you to call the member to order and ask him to stick to Bill C‑354.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Thank you, Mr. Noormohamed. That is duly noted.

Mr. Jivani, keep within the scope of Bill C-354 in your questioning, if you don't mind, please.

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Chair, I have a point of order. I would like to go back to the point of order previously raised by Mr. Champoux. We have ample opportunity to discuss CBC bonuses. We're going to be calling Madam Tait to come. She'll be here to discuss this.

This conversation today is on clause-by-clause on Bill C-354, as Mr. Champoux has rightly noted. It deals with something entirely different, and he has requested that you, as the chair, ensure that members are asking questions that are within the scope of today's meeting, which is specifically to discuss the one clause inside Bill C-354.

[Jamil Jivani, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you.

Given that Bill C-354 makes changes to the CRTC and that it affects a lot of people all across our wonderful country, I think it's fair to ask some questions.

Did you deliberate with the minister in any way concerning a bonus for Catherine Tait?

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, my previous point of order called on you to take action, to call our colleague to order, so that he could get back to the matter at hand, which is Bill C‑354.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, with all due respect, I understand that this is the Conservatives' hot-button topic right now, but we are at the clause-by-clause stage in our study of the bill. The bill has only one clause. We are considering an amendment proposed by the Conservatives. It would be nice if my colleague focused on the task at hand today, which is to discuss Bill C‑354. The bill makes no mention of CBC/Radio-Canada bonuses; rather, it seeks to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act to require that consultations with the Government of Quebec be held automatically when it comes to matters relating to culture, communications and French in Quebec and in Canada.

[Thomas Owen Ripley, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Department of Canadian Heritage]

Chair, I would humbly submit that our role as officials here today is to support the committee in clause-by-clause review of Bill C-354 and to answer your technical questions on that piece of legislation or on the CRTC Act. I would be happy to do that.

I am not able to express an opinion on the question put by the member.

[Jamil Jivani, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As you know Bill C-354 makes changes to the CRTC Act, which is a massive piece of legislation that addresses telecommunications and broadcasting and effectively governs parts of Canada's cultural communities. The Department of Heritage mandate does as well. I have a few questions, which Canadians are looking for answers to, for Mr. Lorrain, one of our witnesses today.

My first question is this: Do you agree with the CBC's paying out $18 million in bonuses this past year?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

Seeing that, then, we will move on. We will not deal with the motion by Ms. Ashton at this time.

Thank you very much, everyone.

We'll move on to what we started to do at 11:07, which is pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 28, Bill C-354, an act to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act in regard to Quebec’s cultural distinctiveness and French-speaking communities.

(On clause 1)

We will call for clause 1. Clause 1 is CPC-1. We'll ask if a member would like to move it.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We spoke with Ms. Ashton about this motion, which proposes to conduct a study on what happened at the Olympics and on what is happening in general at Soccer Canada. This is a motion that the Bloc Québécois considers important.

However, the committee is in the final stage of its consideration of Bill C‑354, which has been pushed back time and time again. We started studying this bill in the spring and we should have wrapped things up before the summer break. Now, my NDP colleague is moving a motion that we could much more easily and freely debate during the second hour of the meeting. We agree with Ms. Ashton's motion and we will seek to improve it with an amendment a little later, but for the time being, I really want to get back to Bill C‑354, so I ask that we adjourn debate on the motion.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Kevin Waugh]

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning, everyone. Welcome to meeting number 128 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage.

Today's meeting, of course, is taking place in a hybrid format. We would like to remind participants of the following points.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. For members participating in person or via Zoom, please raise your hand if you wish to speak. The committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain the consolidated speaking order.

I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, February 28, 2024, the committee will commence clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-354, an act to amend the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission Act with regard to Quebec’s cultural distinctiveness and French-speaking communities.

I would like to provide members of the committee with a few comments on how the committee will proceed with the clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-354.

As the name indicates, this is an explanation of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively, and each clause is subject to debate and a vote.

If there is an amendment to a clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing it, who may explain it.

In addition to being properly drafted in a legal sense, amendments must also be procedurally admissible. The chair may be called upon to rule amendments inadmissible if they go against the principle or beyond the scope of the bill—both of which were adopted by the House of Commons when it agreed to the bill at second reading—or if they offend the financial prerogative of the Crown.

Amendments have been given a number in the top right corner to indicate which party submitted them. There is no need for a seconder to move the amendment. Once an amendment has been moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it.

During the debate on the amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. Approval from the mover of the amendment is not required. Subamendments must be provided in writing. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time, and that subamendment cannot be amended.

When a subamendment is moved to an amendment, it is voted on first, and then another subamendment may be moved, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on that.

Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will vote on the title and the bill itself. An order to reprint the bill may be required if amendments are adopted, so that the House has a proper copy for use at report stage.

The committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House. That report contains only the text of any adopted amendments, as well as any indication of the deleted clauses.

Finally, if members have any questions regarding the procedural admissibility of amendments, the legislative clerks to my right are here to assist the committee. However, as you know, they are not legal drafters. Should members require assistance with drafting an amendment or a subamendment, they must contact the legislative counsel.

I thank members for their attention, and wish everyone a productive clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-354.

I would like to welcome two officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage, who are available this morning to answer any technical questions related to the bill.

We welcome Thomas Owen Ripley, the associate assistant deputy minister of Canadian Heritage, and Mathieu Lorrain, the acting manager of broadcasting.

Before we get to Bill C-354, I see a hand up.

We'll go to Ms. Ashton.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you very much.

I'd like to thank the witnesses very much for joining us today.

Ms. Roy, as president of the FCFA, you clearly explain the situation in which we find ourselves in Canada, that is, the danger posed by the decline of French. Tools have been made available to us through Bill C‑13, and I'm very proud to have worked closely with the former minister of official languages to get a better bill passed. However, it doesn't change the need to move things forward in all areas, if there's a political will to stop this decline of French.

Let's go back to Bill C‑354, which states, among other things, that the CRTC must consult provincial governments other than the government of Quebec about French‑language markets when regulating and monitoring the Canadian broadcasting system.

According to everything we've seen from their governments, do you believe that people like Blaine Higgs in New Brunswick or Danielle Smith in Alberta are acting in the interests of francophone communities and aiming to protect their rights? Do you think it's essential to add measures in this bill to ensure that francophone communities themselves are heard by the CRTC, not only to protect their rights, but also to halt the decline of French in our country?