Bill C-45

An Act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and to make a clarification relating to another Act

This enactment amends the First Nations Fiscal Management Act to expand and modernize the mandates of the First Nations Tax Commission and the First Nations Financial Management Board in order to better reflect their current and future activities.
The enactment also establishes a First Nations Infrastructure Institute that will provide First Nations and other interested Indigenous groups and organizations with tools and support, including with respect to best practices, to implement and manage their infrastructure. It also provides First Nations named in the schedule to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act with the power to make laws to regulate services provided by or on behalf of the First Nations.
The enactment also aims to improve the functioning of that Act, including by integrating the content of the Financing Secured by Other Revenues Regulations , by combining into a single fund the debt reserve fund for financing secured by property tax revenues and the debt reserve fund for financing secured by other revenues and by simplifying the way certain Indigenous groups participate in pooled-borrowing.
Finally, the enactment makes consequential amendments to the Access to Information Act and to the Privacy Act and includes a clarification that addresses a transitional administrative oversight that followed the establishment in 2019 of the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs and the Department of Indigenous Services.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I have the honour to inform the House that a communication has been received as follows:

Rideau Hall

Ottawa

June 19, 2023

Mr. Speaker,

I have the honour to inform you that the Right Honourable Mary May Simon, Governor General of Canada, signified royal assent by written declaration to the bills listed in the Schedule to this letter on the 19th day of June, 2023, at 11:47 a.m.

Yours sincerely,

Christine MacIntyre

Deputy Secretary to the Governor General

The schedule indicates the bills assented to were Bill S-246, An Act respecting Lebanese Heritage Month; Bill C-41, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and to make consequential amendments to other Acts; Bill C-13, An Act to amend the Official Languages Act, to enact the Use of French in Federally Regulated Private Businesses Act and to make related amendments to other Acts; and Bill C-45, An Act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and to make a clarification relating to another Act

Sitting Resumed

[Claude DeBellefeuille, Bloc, Salaberry—Suroît, QC]

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise and speak this evening—although I must say the hour is late, almost 9 p.m.—to join the debate on Bill C‑47.

Before I start, I would like to take a few minutes to voice my heartfelt support for residents of the north shore and Abitibi who have been fighting severe forest fires for several days now. This is a disastrous situation.

I know that the member for Manicouagan and the member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou are on site. They are there for their constituents and represent them well. They have been visiting emergency shelters and showing their solidarity by being actively involved with their constituents and the authorities. The teamwork has been outstanding. Our hearts go out to the people of the north shore and Abitibi.

Tonight, my colleague from Abitibi-Témiscamingue will rise to speak during the emergency debate on forest fires. He will then travel back home to be with his constituents as well, so he can offer them his full support and be there for them in these difficult times.

Of course, I also offer my condolences to the family grieving the loss of loved ones who drowned during a fishing accident in Portneuf‑sur‑Mer. This is yet another tragedy for north shore residents. My heart goes out to the family, the children's parents and those who perished.

Before talking specifically about Bill C-47, I would like to say how impressive the House's work record is. A small headline in the newspapers caught my eye last week. It said that the opposition was toxic and that nothing was getting done in the House. I found that amusing, because I was thinking that we have been working very hard and many government bills have been passed. I think it is worth listing them very quickly to demonstrate that, when it comes right down to it, if parliamentarians work together and respect all the legislative stages, they succeed in getting important bills passed.

I am only going to mention the government's bills. Since the 44th Parliament began, the two Houses have passed bills C‑2, C‑3, C‑4, C‑5, C‑6, C‑8 and C‑10, as well as Bill C‑11, the online streaming bill. My colleague from Drummond's work on this bill earned the government's praise. We worked hard to pass this bill, which is so important to Quebec and to our broadcasting artists and technicians.

We also passed bills C‑12, C‑14, C‑15, C‑16, C‑19, C‑24, C‑25, C‑28, C‑30, C‑31, C‑32, C‑36 and C‑39, which is the important act on medical assistance in dying, and bills C‑43, C‑44 and C‑46.

We are currently awaiting royal assent for Bill C‑9. Bill C‑22 will soon return to the House as well. This is an important bill on the disability benefit.

We are also examining Bill C‑13, currently in the Senate and soon expected to return to the House. Bill C‑18, on which my colleague from Drummond worked exceedingly hard, is also in the Senate. Lastly, I would mention bills C‑21, C‑29 and C‑45.

I do not know whether my colleagues agree with me, but I think that Parliament has been busy and that the government has gotten many of its bills passed by the House of Commons. Before the Liberals say that the opposition is toxic, they should remember that many of those bills were passed by the majority of members in the House.

I wanted to point that out because I was rather insulted to be told that my behaviour, as a member of the opposition, was toxic and was preventing the work of the House from moving forward. In my opinion, that is completely false. We have the government's record when it comes to getting its bills passed. The government is doing quite well in that regard.

We have now come to Bill C-47. We began this huge debate on the budget implementation bill this morning and will continue to debate it until Wednesday. It is a very large, very long bill that sets out a lot of budgetary measures that will be implemented after the bill is passed.

I have no doubt that, by the end of the sitting on June 23, the House will pass Bill C‑47 in time for the summer break.

What could this bill have included that is not in there? For three years, the Bloc Québécois and several other members in the House have been saying that there is nothing for seniors. I was saying earlier to my assistant that, in my riding of Salaberry—Suroît, we speak at every meeting about the decline in seniors' purchasing power. I am constantly being approached by seniors who tell me—

First Nations Fiscal Management Act

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

There being no further members rising, pursuant to an order made earlier today, Bill C-45, an act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other acts, and to make a clarification relating to another act is deemed read a third time and passed.

(Bill read the third time and passed)

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, I am very pleased to rise to speak to Bill C-45, an act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

As the indigenous critic for and on behalf of the New Democrats, I say that we are very pleased to show our support for the passing of Bill C-45. I share my gratitude with Harold Calla, executive chair at the First Nations Financial Management Board; Manny Jules, chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission; Ernie Daniels, president and chief executive officer of the First Nations Finance Authority; and Grant Christoff, general counsel at the First Nations Infrastructure Institute. The leadership they have shown is very important for the advancement of first nations, and their acknowledgement is well deserved.

We have heard from other parties that this is about economic freedom and about creating economic independence. That is not solely what it is for me. If there were true reconciliation and true economic independence, Inuit, first nations and Métis would be able to thrive off the land based on their expertise and knowledge of the land. If it were truly about reconciliation, indigenous peoples would have free, prior and informed consent right at the beginning of the free entry system, and indigenous peoples' questions would be appropriately responded to during consultations at the environmental assessment phases. Only if indigenous peoples' standards were met would any development on lands be allowed to happen, knowing that it would include benefiting indigenous peoples and not only the private sector. That is what economic reconciliation would look like.

What Bill C-45 would do is open doors for first nations that wish to use the same powers that municipalities all over Canada do. It would open up ways for first nations, tribal councils, modern treaty nations and self-governing groups that have opted in to build their administrative, financial and governance capacity through the risk-managed support of the First Nations Financial Management Board. It is so that first nations can make decisions about and seek supports for infrastructure developments.

Bill C-45 would create an indigenous-led first nations infrastructure institute. First nations opting in to the first nations infrastructure institute would see the doors open for them to make decisions about owning, building and maintaining infrastructure in their communities. Bill C-45 is sorely needed because of the years of Liberal and Conservative governments' failures to properly invest in first nations and their infrastructure needs. To date, it is reported that first nations now experience a staggering infrastructure gap of at least $30 billion.

Since my election and since becoming the indigenous critic for the New Democrats, whenever I meet with first nations, Métis and Inuit, including and especially my constituents in Nunavut, I hear frequently what the infrastructure needs are. First nations have decades-long water advisories, mercury poisoning, few to no health and well-being treatment centres, and school and, especially, housing needs that fall well below the investments people see and hear about in the rest of Canada. Since the government continues to fail in meeting the most basic infrastructure needs, my hope is that the passage of Bill C-45 would make those improvements. First nations would see significant gains. If there were schools in first nations communities like Kluane First Nation in the Yukon, for which it has been asking for years, this bill would not be necessary.

Bill C-45 would not absolve government's responsibilities to uphold treaty rights. It would not absolve government's responsibilities to ensure reconciliation.

Amendments to the current and other acts would include, among others, better supports for first nations seeking to create local revenue laws beyond real property taxation, strengthening the education and capacity supports available currently, supporting local revenue-based service agreements, and offering advice to self-governing first nations and other levels of government.

Bill C-45 would expand and modernize the First Nations Financial Management Board's mandate by completing the 2018 expansion of services and certification standards for new client segments, including tribal councils, and treaty and self-governing groups. It would also provide monitoring and review services.

It would create a full-time position on the First Nations Financial Management Board, establish a national indigenous-led organization under the First Nations Fiscal Management Act to achieve better and more sustainable infrastructure outcomes for first nations, expand law-making powers allowing first nations to make laws respecting the provision of services and to regulate, prohibit and impose requirements in respect of those services on reserve lands.

First nations would be given more authority and enforcement powers to ensure compliance with their local revenue and service laws. The bill would combine the fund supported by other revenues with the fund supported by local revenues. It clarifies that only borrowing members with outstanding loans could be called upon to replenish the fund in circumstances that it has used.

I repeat that this is not about economic reconciliation. First nations, Inuit and Métis were self-governing before colonialism. Through their self-governance, indigenous peoples had laws and management regimes that protected the wildlife and environment. Indigenous peoples respected important relationships with the land and with each other.

While colonial and genocidal policies continue, Inuit, first nations and Métis continue on a path of reconciliation. That relationship with the government is not reciprocal, not to the extent that will advance indigenous peoples' health and well-being.

Bill C-45 is a step to give powers to first nations to make choices and act without federal government assistance. As such, New Democrats support Bill C-45. New Democrats will continue to advocate for reconciliation that is meaningful to Inuit, first nations and Métis.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Nunavut sits with me on the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs and is a very important member of that committee.

I agree with her fully that this does not release the government in terms of its fiduciary obligations to first nations communities. What this gives to communities are tools to get outside of the Indian Act. One of the shirts that I often see when I go to powwows with my son is a shirt that says “Burn sage, sweetgrass and the Indian Act”.

What our government is doing is pivoting from the Indian Act to giving communities options they can opt out of, fully with their own systems, fully with their own autonomy. Our eventual goal is to make sure that we focus on the valuable work that we need to do and the UNDRIP Act, and to make sure that all government departments are consistent with that.

I would like to thank the member for her hard work in making sure that we got Bill C-45 where it is today.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, I do enjoy working with the hon. member at the indigenous and northern affairs committee.

Regarding Bill C-45, as first nations begin to move toward financial independence, it does not mean that governments are alleviated from their obligations to meet the needs of first nations communities. I wonder if the member agrees with me that while we move toward that, governments will always have obligations to meet the needs of first nations communities.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, the First Nations Finance Authority was a game-changer for the Membertou community. This allowed the first nations to refinance, freeing up funds to reinvest in business development, and the results have been fantastic. They include an $8.2-million elementary school, a 90-lot housing development, and a $9.5-million highway interchange that allowed access to future commercial development on land owned by Membertou. From this, members of the first nation went on to build the Membertou Sport and Wellness Centre, one of the largest sporting venues on Cape Breton Island, and the Lanes at Membertou, 16 lanes of bowling with state-of-the-art technology.

Perhaps Membertou's greatest feat was the acquisition of the Clearwater fishery. If anyone had told me that the largest economic and commercial investment in Cape Breton would come during my first years of being an MP, I would have said they were joking with me. However, the $1-billion acquisition of Clearwater, with six other first nations, which were all part of the First Nations Finance Authority, was a game-changer for those communities.

The Membertou Development Corporation is now home to 12 corporate entities. This is in keeping with the remarkable success the Membertou First Nation has had in recent years. Membertou received certification from the International Organization for Standardization, ISO, in 2002, becoming the first indigenous organization to do so in Canada and leading the way for others.

With the support of first nations institutions under the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, incredible change is possible. I want to acknowledge the hard work, dedication and persistence of Membertou's chief, council and their staff.

Moving back to Bill C-45, passing this proposed legislation would allow us to create those differences in other communities, create those successes in first nations communities across Canada, enhance the act and further support first nations communities as they rebuild their nations and advance self-determination.

I encourage all members of this House to join me in supporting this bill and in supporting the first nations institutions under the act, which co-developed the amendments and which are creating such important change for so many indigenous communities across Canada by supporting self-determination and economic reconciliation.

Wela'lioq.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Mr. Speaker, kwe. Tansi. Hello. Bonjour.

Before I begin, I would like to acknowledge that Canada's Parliament is located on the unceded traditional territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe people.

I am pleased to have the opportunity today to speak to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act. I would like to recognize the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations for his work on this piece of legislation. I would also like to thank my colleagues on INAN, the indigenous and northern affairs committee, for their careful consideration and study of the bill.

The proposed amendments in Bill C-45 align with the April 2020 report of our committee entitled “Barriers to Economic Development in Indigenous Communities”. We worked collaboratively to achieve the recommendations in that report to champion the economic reconciliation and self-determination by unanimously supporting Bill C-45. Before I continue, I would like to acknowledge the members of that committee for the great work they did and the collaborative work we have done in making sure we passed it with urgency.

Most of all, I would like to recognize the chairs of the first nations-led institutions that put forward the proposed changes to the act and co-developed Bill C-45 with our government. I thank Harold Calla, executive chair of the First Nations Financial Management Board; Manny Jules, chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission; Ernie Daniels, president of the First Nations Finance Authority; as well as Allan Claxton and Jason Calla of the First Nations Infrastructure Institute development board.

The First Nations Fiscal Management Act is an optional piece of legislation, with 348 signatories, and it is an alternative to the Indian Act regime. It is important to key in on the word “optional” because the stakeholders have told us that it is always important to give indigenous communities the choice. They deserve that choice when it comes to their affairs. It is consistent with what we have passed with the UNDRIP Act.

With this act, first nations can assert their jurisdiction in the areas of financial management, taxation and access to capital markets. Bill C-45 was co-developed with the first nations institutions under the act, and responds to what first nations have called for, to improve and expand the current services available under the act, and to establish the First Nations Infrastructure Institute.

Some of these proposed legislative amendments are as follows: modernize and expand the mandates of the tax commission and the financial management board respectively to better reflect the increasing needs for their services; allow the tax commission, the financial management board and the proposed infrastructure institute to collect and analyze data; and establish for the first time ever a First Nations Infrastructure Institute as a national indigenous-led organization that would support first nations scheduled to the act, as well as indigenous organizations and groups, to achieve better and more sustainable infrastructure outcomes. It would very much create a centre of excellence for indigenous infrastructure across Canada, whether dealing with wastewater or greening community buildings.

I would like to provide members with an example of the type of great work the First Nations Financial Management Board can support.

In my riding about 10 years ago, the Membertou first nation in Cape Breton received the board's first-ever financial systems certification, which provided the community with access to long-term, affordable capital to the first nations financial authority. I am not over-exaggerating when I say that this was a game changer for that community and the region of Cape Breton. It allowed the first nations to refinance, freeing up funds to reinvest in business developments. The results have been fantastic. They include an $8.2-million elementary school, a 90-lot housing development and a $9.5-million highway interchange that allows access to future commercial developments on land owned by the Membertou.

From this—

[Mary Ng, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

moved that Bill C-45, An Act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and to make a clarification relating to another Act, be read the third time and passed.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Pursuant to order made earlier today, the House will now proceed to the consideration of Bill C-45 at third reading stage.

Business of the House

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons (Senate)]

Madam Speaker, there have been discussions among the parties and if you seek it, I believe you will find unanimous consent for the following motion:

That, notwithstanding any standing order, special order or usual practice of the House,

(a) Bill C-45, An Act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and to make a clarification relating to another Act, be disposed of as follows:

(i) the bill be deemed concurred in at report stage, as amended, upon the adoption of this order;

(ii) the bill be ordered for consideration at the third reading stage later today after the taking of the deferred recorded divisions,

(iii) when the bill is take up at the third reading stage, one member of each recognized party be allowed to speak for not more than 10 minutes followed by five minutes for questions and comments,

(iv) at the conclusion of the time provided for this debate or when no member rises to speak, whichever is earlier, the bill shall be deemed read a third time and passed; and

(b) the order adopted earlier today under the provisions of Standing Order 78(3) still apply to the proceedings on Bill S-5, An Act to amend the Canadian Environmental Protection Act, 1999, to make related amendments to the Food and Drugs Act and to repeal the Perfluorooctane Sulfonate Virtual Elimination Act, and that today's proceedings on the bill count as the further sitting day allotted for debate at report stage.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs

[Jenica Atwin, Liberal, Fredericton, NB]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the seventh report of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs, in relation to Bill C-45, an act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other acts, and to make a clarification relating to another act.

The committee has studied the bill and has decided to report the bill back to the House with amendments.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Okay.

Madam Chair, we would like that Bill C-45, in clause 52, be amended by replacing, in the French version, lines 36 and 37 on page 46 with the following:

l’emportent sur les dispositions incompatibles d’un texte législatif sur les recettes locales ou d’un texte législatif pris en vertu du paragraphe 97(1) d’une première nation.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Madam Chair, the Bloc is going to have to forgive my French on this.

I move that Bill C-45 in clause 43 be amended by replacing, in the French version, line 1 on page 37 with the following:

113b)(i), révoquer pour un motif suffisant un conseiller mentionné au para-

Did the interpreters get that, Madam Gill? Was that not so bad?

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Welcome to meeting number 63 of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs.

We acknowledge that this meeting is taking place on the unceded territory of the Algonquin and Anishinaabe peoples.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members are participating in person, in the room, and remotely using the Zoom application.

The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name.

A reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you're not speaking, your mike should be on mute, particularly those of us online today.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, May 3, 2023, we will be begin clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-45, an act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other acts, and to make a clarification relating to another act.

I will note that we have witnesses in the room for our reference.

We have with us today, from the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs, Philippe Bertrand, manager; Christopher Duschenes, director general, indigenous institutions and governance modernization; Andrea Dixon, senior policy officer; Karine Tremblay, senior policy analyst; and from the Department of Justice, Andrew Ouchterlony, legal counsel.

Before we begin our clause-by-clause consideration, I do want to mention that there is a possibility of a vote that may interrupt our proceedings. We will suspend at that time. We could be finished at that time, but we will have to wait and see. I will be as clear and as slow as possible, but we certainly want to be diligent with our time, so I will begin.

I would like to provide members of the committee with some instructions and with a few comments on how the committee will proceed with the clause-by-clause considerations of Bill C-45.

As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively, and each clause is subject to debate and to a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member proposing it, who may explain it. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on. Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the bill and in the package each member received from the clerk. Members should note that new amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk of the committee. The chair will go slowly to allow all members to follow the proceedings properly.

Amendments have been given an alphanumeric number in the top right corner to indicate which party submitted them. There is no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw it. During debate on an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. These subamendments must be submitted in writing. They do not require the approval of the mover of the amendment. Only one subamendment may be considered at a time. That subamendment cannot be amended. When a subamendment is moved to an amendment, it is voted on first. Then, another subamendment may be voted on, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on it.

Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will consider and vote on the title and the bill itself. If amendments are adopted, an order to reprint the bill may be required so that the House has a proper copy for use at report stage. Finally, the committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House. That report contains only the text of adopted amendments as well as an indication of any deleted clauses.

Are we ready to begin? Okay.

I would like to note for the committee that there are no amendments submitted to clauses 1 to 26. I ask for unanimous consent to group them for a vote.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

You can see my concern. It wasn't even on the calendar to debate it at second reading, to send it to committee. Although it was a great sign of a unified front, it wasn't even on the calendar in the near future. I don't want to see Bill C-45 disappear into the abyss when it is a priority for everybody.

While unanimous consent is a tool that can be used from time to time, I don't think it should be the tool used all the time. It deserves debate in the committee room. It deserves debate in the chamber.

I'd like to, if possible—I know you don't control the House agenda—see it given a bit of priority on the government side, in order to get it on the table and in front of the House for debate, so we can push it to the Senate as quickly as possible.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

For Bill C-45, the implementation process took a long time. The partners worked on this legislation with the first nations bands. You were working with them. Through the work you did with them, this legislation was created.

You say your government is important. You say you need to work in partnership with first nations, Métis and Inuit. You have to work in partnership with all the indigenous groups.

Why is this bill only being implemented at this time, when you say it is very important? Can you answer me? Why have we been waiting for this legislation for so long?

[Eric Melillo, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

I think it's great that we're moving this forward. It's always nice when we can agree, at least a little bit, in this place. I appreciate your being here on this.

I want to speak to some of the comments we heard from witnesses in the last meeting, Minister. It's clear that the infrastructure institute, this idea of monetization and the ideas set out in Bill C-45 have been on your department's radar for quite some time. If I'm not mistaken, the institute itself has been part of the departmental plan since 2020.

Obviously, we're all happy to see this moving forward, but I'm wondering if you can shed some light on what happened since 2020 and why it's taken so long for us to get to this point.

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Ville-Marie—Le Sud-Ouest—Île-des-Soeurs, QC]

It's mainly hurdles in terms of flexibility. The act still had a lot of impediments that gave more authority to the federal government. Now the communities will have more flexibility, more room to manoeuver in seeking access to capital.

More services will be provided. Institutions are taking a closer look at the consultations that we have done over the past few years and aim to make changes in keeping with the needs of communities who want better access to capital.

Bill C‑45 gives rise to tremendous hope. The communities have been waiting for it for a long time now, and I would be thrilled if you could speed up its passing. I know that the Senate will also have a say, but we would be most grateful.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

It would be interesting to consult them afterwards. However, I do understand that it is a huge undertaking and that some considerations, whether they be ideological or political, can mean certain communities will choose not to participate under the First Nations Fiscal Management Act. Obviously, that is also their choice.

You said in your opening statement that certain hurdles have been eliminated. Setting aside those that are linked to the infrastructure project, what are the main hurdles that have been eliminated thanks to the amendments proposed in bill C‑45?

[Gary Vidal, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

It is a good day today when we all agreed to move this legislation forward in the House just before we entered today. I think that's a good thing.

Minister, you and I have spoken on several occasions over the last three and a half years about different pieces of this legislation. Personally, I think the concept of monetization is a very positive step for reconciliation across our country.

Mr. Daniels from the FNFA on Monday obviously agreed, and I know you know where I'm coming from here. What he said was, “We really believe that the monetization of government transfers, be it a new source of funding or an existing source of funding, will really be a big game-changer when it comes to closing this infrastructure gap.” He went on a little bit later in our hearing on Monday to say, “I'm sure at some point in time that monetization will happen, but I just don't know when. The concept is sound. It works. Every other government does that.”

Can you just clarify for the committee whether Bill C-45 actually includes government transfers in the context of the “other revenues” component of that, in the context of what Mr. Daniels is asking for? Also, could you answer Mr. Daniels' question as to when this concept of monetization will be available to be utilized by their organization across the country?

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Kwe Kwe. Tansi. Unusakut. Good day to you all.

Before I begin, I want to acknowledge our presence on the unceded territory of the Algonquin people. As well, I want to thank MP Schmale for the recent motion in the House to move things along. It's truly appreciated from this side of government.

Madam Chair and honourable committee members, thank you for inviting me today to provide an overview of Bill C-45, a legislation that would amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act. The legislation, as you know, seeks to support indigenous self-determination and economic reconciliation.

The FNFMA supports communities in exercising jurisdiction of their financial management, property taxation and local revenues, and in financing infrastructure and economic developments. The proposed amendments to the legislation before the committee for study were co-developed by the first nations-led institutions established under the act: First Nations Tax Commission, First Nations Financial Management Board, and First Nations Finance Authority, in addition to the First Nations Infrastructure Institute's development board.

Since coming into force in 2006, the First Nations Fiscal Management Act has considerably increased the welfare as well as the economic and community development and self‑determination of over 350 participating first nations in the country.

As the leaders of the institutions told you on Monday, the amendments proposed in bill C‑45 seek to eliminate certain impediments to the economic development of indigenous communities with the goal of increasing the support and tools given to participating communities in the area of fiscal and infrastructure management.

The most important aspect of bill C‑45 is the fact that it creates a new entity, the First Nations Infrastructure Institute or FNII, which will help first nations and other interested indigenous groups, including Métis and Inuit partners, by providing them with the necessary tools, competencies and best practices to assert their jurisdiction in the area of infrastructure and asset management.

The Infrastructure Institute will help participating indigenous groups plan, acquire, own and manage infrastructure on their land.

You heard on Monday from Allan Claxton and Jason Calla of the first nations-led development board and technical working group for the First Nations Infrastructure Institute, or FNII. They have set up pilot projects across Canada that have helped to identify different service requirements to inform development of processes, standards and organizational designs for the FNII. It will, for example, support infrastructure services transfer to new indigenous organizations like the Atlantic First Nations Water Authority.

Another one of those pilot projects is with the Chippewas of Kettle and Stony Point First Nation in southern Ontario. Through this project, the first nation is developing a feasibility study, business case and procurement options for water and waste-water assets. They are also developing a financial model that incorporates First Nations Fiscal Management Act tools that can be used for cost recovery to support water and waste-water treatment projects and infrastructure projects, which are so crucial to economic development and to the well-being of their communities. The work is supporting Kettle and Stony Point's community vision for wealth creation, focusing on the creation of an economy for the community and its members to build housing, education and recreation spaces.

The establishment of the FNII and the success of Kettle and Stony Point are further supported by other amendments put forward in Bill C-45.

The First Nations Tax Commission's mandate would be modernized to better support first nations with their local revenue systems, to strengthen education and capacity supports, and to offer advice to self-governing first nations and other levels of government.

Meanwhile, the First Nations Financial Management Board, which helps first nations strengthen their local financial management regimes and borrow money, would see its mandate expanded so that they could offer services and certification standards to new clients, such as tribal councils and health or education authorities.

The last amendment I'd like to highlight would enhance data collection to enhance the institutions' capacity to support evidence-based planning and decision-making.

The amendments proposed in bill C‑45 are a tremendous opportunity for indigenous institutions to broaden and reinforce their mandates in order to reduce hurdles and improve access to capital and revenues, all the while supporting communities in their efforts to seek out and pursue economic development opportunities.

I look forward to answering your questions.

With that, I'm really looking forward to the questions from the committee.

Meegwetch. Thank you. Merci.

[The Chair, Liberal, Jenica Atwin]

Is the interpretation service working now?

Right. Thank you very much.

Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons' website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entire committee.

For those participating virtually, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice, at the bottom of your screen, of floor, English or French. Please select your language now. If interpretation is lost at any point, please inform me immediately and we will ensure it is properly restored before resuming our proceedings.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in the committee room. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name.

If you are on the video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your mike will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

Please address your comments to the chair.

When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute.

With regard to the speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on April 19, 2023, the committee is continuing its study of the subject of Bill C-45, an act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act.

Today we welcome the honourable Marc Miller, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations.

Thank you so much for being with us today.

We also have officials from the Department of Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs: Philippe Bertrand, manager; Christopher Duschenes, director general, indigenous institutions and governance modernization; Andrea Dixon, senior policy officer; and Karine Tremblay, senior policy analyst. We also have, from the Department of Justice, Andrew Ouchterlony, legal counsel.

Minister, you will have five minutes for your opening remarks. The floor is yours.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm really interested. I would like maybe a few people to answer if they want to. We were talking about moving at the speed of business. We talked about how it has been seven years to get to this point, but what I'm understanding by listening to some of what you have had to do in the meantime—and that's really talking about your pilot projects, about your transfer of knowledge quickly and about shared services because of our remote communities—is that you have taken it upon yourselves to try to go out and figure out what works best and learn from that. That's what I think the best thing is: when you can learn. You then can say, this worked really well, but that didn't work at all so we're going to stop and not do that again.

You're really ready to go when Bill C-45 is signed off on, and it's because of some of the work you have done historically in trying to get there. Really, what I would like to hear are some of your stories of what you've done, the challenges you've had and how you have moved this forward, because I think a real-life story means so much more than some communication on a piece of paper.

I will open that up.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

On the work that you are going to be doing, and in terms of recommendations, can you identify any recommendations in order to ensure that the work you are doing does not go to waste? For the regulations that will be created, I just don't want to create or see any barriers. Bill C-45 is one bill that's really a pleasure to hear about, but this is in order to avoid barriers in the regulations.

[Clarence T. (Manny) Jules]

A lot of first nations and other Canadians don't recognize or know their history. Taxes were a fundamental part of indigenous culture, going back many millennia. As a matter of fact, our cultures wouldn't have survived on this land without the concept of taxes.

Taksis is the Chinook spelling of “taxation”. It's a concept we understood, a concept we practised and a concept that will now be enshrined in Canadian legislation, if this particular piece of legislation is passed—Bill C-45. It was a Chinook trade language spoken in the Pacific northwest, from Alaska to northern California. It is a very important concept because it educates our people. We had these concepts that were part of our cultural milieu. It also signifies to Canada that taxation is something we're not afraid of dealing with.

Taxation is a fundamental governmental power that has its roots in the Matsqui court decision. It's one of the very first court decisions I was involved in, going to the Supreme Court of Canada. When you talk about fundamental governmental power, everybody just refers to taxation in its spelling as it is now.

When we introduce the concept of taksis, it's going to fundamentally change how we view taxation in this country, and in particular how my people—how Secwépemc and indigenous people across the country—think about taxation. It isn't a foreign concept. These are concepts we had as part of our world view. It's how we financed our infrastructure, how we financed our culture and how we financed international trade among the indigenous populations of the Americas.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

[Member spoke in Inuktitut, interpreted as follows:]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of the witnesses for your testimonies. You testimonies are very important.

First of all, to each of the witnesses, can you share your thoughts on Bill C-45? It is simultaneously being created and the federal government is codeveloping this act with you. I'd like to understand a bit more about the process. Was it good for you? Was it satisfactory for you?

The other question I would like to ask you is whether you would want to make further amendments to the content of the Bill C-45.

Each of you can respond.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Indeed, this includes Inuit and possibly Métis. Similarly, why was no consideration given to including other indigenous groups in the definition of “borrowing member”? Perhaps they were, but I wasn't involved in the initial discussions. Why is this definition not further broadened through Bill C‑45?

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd also like to thank all the witnesses who are with us today. We're having very interesting discussions on a number of fronts.

Many of those present worked on the early version of Bill C‑45. I invite them to share their comments and answers with us, if they wish.

Mr. Daniels, you talked about one of the major amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, the expansion of the meaning of “borrowing member”. I'd like to know why that meaning was limited in the first place. Was it simply because the act was new? Also, while Bill C‑45 will broaden that meaning, do you think it's broad enough or could it be broadened even further?

[Ernie Daniels]

Thank you for that question. It's a really good question.

I think it fits, because all the amendments that are part of Bill C-45 have a direct impact on first nations communities, especially services to communities. We would hope that infrastructure, especially with the First Nations Infrastructure Institute coming on, will help communities to plan and build the proper infrastructure they need and with the costs associated with that. That definitely will be a benefit, for sure. The more infrastructure we can get into our communities, like health services and health and community centres, those things will benefit our communities.

In terms of reconciliation, I think it's empowering our communities to do things on their own terms and on their own time. I believe that's the whole benefit of the FNFA. It's a voluntary process as well. I strongly believe that when first nations are in control of when they do their assets, when they do their economic development and when they choose to do certain things, such as developing a property tax system, all those things are, to me, true reconciliation.

Thank you.

[Ernie Daniels, President and Chief Executive Officer, First Nations Finance Authority]

Thank you, Chair.

My name is Ernie Daniels and I am the president and CEO of the First Nations Finance Authority. I am a member of the Salt River First Nation in the Northwest Territories.

I'd like to thank Leane Walsh and her team at CIRNAC, the First Nations Tax Commission and the First Nations Fiscal Management Board for working collaboratively on these amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, or FMA, over the last several years.

The First Nations Finance Authority, or FNFA, is a non-profit organization whose mandate is to provide financing, investment and advisory services to those first nation governments across Canada that voluntarily schedule to the FMA.

The FNFA board is elected annually from the member first nations. The FMA received royal assent in 2005 with all-party support, and the FNFA has been providing services to first nations governments across Canada ever since.

To date, 342 first nations have been scheduled to the FMA, and FNFA has loaned over $1.8 billion in financing to its membership of 151 first nations through nine provinces and the Northwest Territories. This has resulted in the creation of over 20,000 jobs and an economic output of $4 billion, which demonstrates that we are stronger together.

However, certain economic and social needs of our member communities can only be met through amendments to our act.

The FNFA strongly supports Bill C-45 in principle. It brings significant positive change that will lead to enhanced opportunities for first nations and indigenous governments across Canada. For example, the financing secured by other revenues regulations will be incorporated directly into the FMA. Bringing the provisions about other revenues directly into the FMA will result in a comprehensive FMA that is much easier to follow.

Another example is that the definition of “borrowing member” is expanded in anticipation of eligibility being expanded to indigenous governments and non-profit organizations through other regulations that will still be required. These important entities provide essential economic and social services to first nations.

The proposed amendments will have significant positive impacts for first nations.

Thank you and mahsi cho for your time and consideration.

[Clarence T., Manny) Jules (Chief Commissioner, First Nations Tax Commission]

Members of the committee, good afternoon.

My name is Manny Jules. I am the chief commissioner of the First Nations Tax Commission. It is one of the three institutions created by the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, better known as the FMA. I was also chief of my community, the Kamloops Indian Band, from the years 1984 to 2000.

Thank you for this opportunity to appear before this committee and to speak in support of Bill C-45.

Canadian history has shown that practical proposals to increase our self-determination and to implement economic reconciliation move slowly unless we design and lead the changes.

The proposals are optional. First nation institutions support their implementation. I know this first-hand, as I've spent most of my adult life working on proposals to renew the fiscal means for our self-determination. These include the Kamloops amendment to the Indian Act in 1988, which gave first nations the ability to generate wealth from lands leased on designated lands; the creation of the First Nations Gazette in 1997, which supports the legal voice of first nations; the first nations sales tax in 1998; and the passage of the FMA in the year 2005. In each case, I worked to ensure that we had all-party support.

Twenty years ago, in June of 2003, I appeared before this committee in support of the original FMA. I spoke about how the FMA gave us hope for a better future by giving us more fiscal powers, by supporting faster implementation of our jurisdictions and by raising our credit rating. Since that time, I am proud to say we have turned that hope into trust, and we have delivered on that promise.

The FMA first nations have realized billions of dollars in investment, and the assessed value of reserve lands now exceeds $15 billion. Thousands of FMA laws have been passed, and 150 first nation administrators have graduated from the Tulo Centre of Indigenous Economics.

Perhaps more importantly, with the success of the FMA, we have created a formula to speed up the process of self-determination and of economic reconciliation: pass federal legislation to open up the jurisdictional space for interested first nations; occupy that space with our own laws, if first nations are interested, to fully respect their right to self-determination; and support first nations who opt in with first nation institutions, standards and accredited training to increase the benefits.

Bill C-45 is the next step in this process, and it reflects what we have heard from the FMA first nations. We need our own infrastructure institute. We need to expand our fiscal powers. We need to take control of our fiscal information, and we need to expand our capacity to support within the Tulo Centre of Indigenous Economics.

These amendments reflect what the FMA institutions told this committee in 2022 as part of your study on barriers to economic development. They were also recommendations in the committee's report to the House of Commons.

The FMA is the most successful first nation-led legislation in Canadian history, with more than half of all first nations using this act. We now know that with these improvements the number is only going to grow. We have moved beyond simply recognizing first nation rights to implementing first nation jurisdiction.

Working together, with the support of all parties in Parliament, the FMA institutions and first nations have provided an optional legislative path to complete one part of the unfinished business of Canada: to find a place for first nation governments in the federation and in the economy.

Our work will continue down that legislative path, for example with the development of a first nations resource charge to ensure we benefit from resource revenues derived from our lands. Another example would be the creation of a first nations assessment authority, which would provide an accessible and reliable institution for the valuation of first nation lands.

All-party support for these amendments will demonstrate Canada's commitment to our self-determination and to economic reconciliation.

I believe that the legislation is the continuation of what my father, Chief Clarence Jules, started in 1965. His words then still resonate today: We must be able to move at the speed of business.

Your support for these amendments demonstrates that my ancestors were right when they wrote in a letter to the prime minister, Sir Wilfrid Laurier, in 1910, that by working together we can make each other “great and good”.

Thank you very much.

[Allan Claxton, Development Board Chair, First Nations Infrastructure Institute]

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, good afternoon.

My name is Allan Claxton. I am chair of the First Nations Infrastructure Institute's development board. I was formerly chief of my nation for 20 years. I'm on council now, and I have been on council for 10 years. I've spent a lot of my life in politics, working for my nation.

High-quality public infrastructure is important for the health and sustainability of our communities. As I said earlier, I've been involved in my community for over 30 years. I have seen and understand the challenges to develop infrastructure projects. We just completed a couple last year, including a modern bighouse, with a state-of-the-art kitchen attached to it. We also upgraded a road with paving, sidewalks and lighting. We are proud of that, but we still have many more infrastructure needs in our community, like all the other first nations in the country.

Community infrastructure is more than a collection of buildings and the roads that connect them. These are places of learning, belonging, sustainment and healing.

The problems with the current first nation infrastructure systems are well known. Infrastructure on reserves takes too long to develop, costs to much to build and does not last long enough because it's not built up to the proper standards. This contributes to a series of poor health, social and economic outcomes.

We are proposing to establish the First Nations Infrastructure Institute—otherwise known as FNII—to tackle these problems. We are proposing to establish the First Nations Infrastructure Institute to join the FNFA, FNTC and the FMB, the three institutions created by the FMA.

FNII has been designed to build on the successes of the FMA model. It will also be optional to all first nations.

The first nations and indigenous organizations that choose to work with FNII will be able to use standardized best practices to plan, procure, own and manage their infrastructure projects. We know that infrastructure needs are great. We have been talking to first nations across the country about their proposed projects.

Jason and I have been doing a lot of travelling to a lot of communities across the country. We know that there are many projects that nations have in mind, including water and wastewater systems, roads, internet connectivity, recreation centres and health centres. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

These projects support and serve both members who live on our lands and non-members who may be residents living or working on our lands. That's a good example of my community. We have 10 trailer parks and two RV parks in my community. We know that development of these projects will benefit not only our community but the regional economy as well.

We believe that working with FNII will support first nations and indigenous groups in advancing their projects. Our goal is to assist nations to develop infrastructure in a better and more sustainable way than the current approach.

I thank you for the opportunity to present these amendments. We are asking for your support to move ahead with the proposed amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act in Bill C-45.

Hych’ka Siem. Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Jamie Schmale]

Good afternoon. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to the 61st meeting of the Standing Committee on Indigenous and Northern Affairs. We recognize that we meet on the unceded territory of the Algonquin and Anishinabe peoples.

Our meeting today will be in a hybrid format, according to the order adopted in the House on Thursday, June 23, 2022. Members may be present in person or on Zoom. The proceedings will then be published on the House of Commons website. Just as a note, the webcast will show the person who is speaking and not the entire committee.

For those participating remotely, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

You may speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting in French, English and Inuktitut. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French audio. Please select your language now. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

For members participating in person, proceed as you would normally do when the whole committee is meeting. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on the video conference screen, please click on the microphone icon to unmute yourself. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer. Please address all comments through the chair. When speaking, please speak slowly—not like I'm doing right now—and clearly, and when you're not speaking your mike should be on mute.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do the best we can to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating remotely or in person.

We now move on to the committee. With the motion adopted by the committee on April 19, 2023, the committee is now commencing its study of the subject matter of Bill C-45, an act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act.

Today we welcome our witnesses. We have Harold Calla and Grant Christoff, executive chair and general counsel respectively, from the First Nations Financial Management Board. We have Allan Claxton and Jason Calla, development board chair and technical team, from First Nations Infrastructure Institute. We have Manny Jules and Marie Potvin, commissioner and legal counsel respectively, from the First Nations Tax Commission; and Ernie Daniels, president and CEO of the First Nations Finance Authority.

Thank you everyone for being here today. We look forward to your testimony.

Since we have Harold and Grant up first, we will start with them.

Please, you have five minutes.

First Nations Fiscal Management Act

[Marc Miller, Liberal, Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C‑45, An Act to amend the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, to make consequential amendments to other Acts, and to make a clarification relating to another Act.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)