Bill C-58

An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code and the Canada Industrial Relations Board Regulations, 2012

This enactment amends the Canada Labour Code to, among other things,
(a) amend the scope of the prohibition relating to replacement workers by removing the requirement of demonstrating a purpose of undermining a trade union’s representational capacity, by adding persons whose services must not be used during legal strikes and lockouts and by providing certain exceptions;
(b) prohibit employers from using, during a legal strike or lockout intended to involve the cessation of work by all employees in a bargaining unit, the services of an employee in that unit, subject to certain exceptions;
(c) make the contravention by employers of either of those prohibitions an offence punishable by a fine of up to $100,000 per day;
(d) authorize the Governor in Council to make regulations establishing an administrative monetary penalties scheme for the purpose of promoting compliance with those prohibitions; and
(e) amend the maintenance of activities process in order to, among other things, encourage employers and trade unions to reach an earlier agreement respecting activities to be maintained in the event of a legal strike or lockout, encourage faster decision making by the Canada Industrial Relations Board when parties are unable to agree and reduce the need for the Minister of Labour to make referrals to the Board.

[The Chair (Mr. Robert Morrissey (Egmont, Lib.)), Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Good afternoon, committee members.

Welcome to meeting number 106 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members have the option of appearing virtually or in the room. Witnesses and committee members are appearing in person this afternoon.

You have the option of choosing to speak in the official language of your choice. Interpretation services are available. I wish to advise you to keep your earpiece away from the mic to protect the interpreters. If there is a loss of interpretation service, please get my attention by raising your hand. We'll suspend while it is being clarified.

I remind members that all comments must be addressed through the chair. To do that, simply raise your hand in the room to get my attention, and I will recognize you.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, October 18, 2023, the committee is continuing its study on Bill C‑58, an act to amend the Canada Labour Code and the Canada Industrial Relations Board Regulations, 2012.

For today's meeting, we'll be hearing from representatives of two organizations at their request. A third organization was invited to appear, but asked to be rescheduled to a meeting later in April, so that meeting will have four organizations on the panel. I did agree to that request.

Today, from the Canadian Labour Congress, we have Bea Bruske, president; Chris Roberts, director, social and economic policy department; and from the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, we have Ryan Greer, vice-president, public affairs and national policy.

Each group will have five minutes for an opening statement.

Ms. Bruske, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Sandra Hassan]

Mr. Boulerice, I would reply that the workers you are talking about are not subject to part I of the Canada Labour Code. However, Bill C‑58 aims to amend that part. Unfortunately, these workers are not under our jurisdiction.

[Wayne Long, Liberal, Saint John—Rothesay, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning to my colleagues.

Minister O'Regan, thank you for coming.

I have to say that I am virtual, but I am just amazed and dumbfounded when I listen to the Conservative MPs today with this new-found concern for Canadian unions and the working class. It's just amazing. It's a 180° turnaround. They brought forth Bill C-377 and Bill C-525, which were arguably two of the biggest union-busting bills that we've seen in our history, and we reversed them.

Minister, I want to congratulate you for Bill C-58. It's progressive. It's going to move our country forward. It's historic legislation that's going to help Canadian workers get powerful paycheques.

As we've seen in the House and here in this committee—again, disappointingly so—the Conservative MPs do not want to talk about Bill C-58.

We know what the Leader of the Opposition is about, and what he did was support anti-labour bills. We know that he also supports American-style right-to-work legislation.

Minister, I want you to share with me why you think the Conservative MPs today do not want to talk about Bill C-58.

Thank you.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate it, because I think we're here to protect working class families. I believe the minister, being from Newfoundland, actually has a deep connection to the people. I believe that. I came from New Brunswick last week, and the Valley Food Bank. Their numbers, in the last year, have tripled. Do you know who the demographic is? It's the working class. It's the people who you're here to fight for in Bill C-58.

The question I would ask you, Minister, is this: as the Minister of Labour, what do you think are the two reasons people go to work?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Ms. Ferreri, we're here to discuss Bill C-58.

You may continue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

Ms. Ferreri, please keep it to the relevancy of Bill C-58.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Could we get back to the relevance, please? We're talking about Bill C-58.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'd just like to say, by way of introduction, that I'm somewhat taken aback by the comments of my Conservative colleagues today on this committee. They suddenly seem to be very concerned about the fate of the federal public service and public service workers. Yet this is not how I remember Mr. Stephen Harper's regime when the Conservatives were in power.

That said, Minister, thank you very much for appearing before us today.

You said in your introduction that this was a purely Liberal bill. I'd just like to add that there is a bit of NDP in there, since it was a condition of the agreement we negotiated with your minority government.

I must also underscore the fact that we had frank and honest discussions on the development of Bill C‑58. There's obviously room for improvement, and there are things we're going to want to improve and correct along the way. However, you do have experience, Minister, as you've seen labour disputes in federally regulated sectors over the past few years.

By way of introduction, I'd like you to briefly explain the impact of anti-scab legislation at the bargaining table when it comes to respecting the rights of workers in federally regulated sectors.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you for that.

Again, with the past private members' bills that were about banning replacement workers, how is the legislation different? How was the process different for Bill C-58?

Can you also expand on why it is that we need time to get this right and how much time we have proposed to make sure that, when it comes into force, it's done correctly? Could you touch on that, too?

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

We had extensive consultations. I attended them all, or at least the two main ones that we had. We even went to the trouble of making sure that we had the seating arrangements rights. I didn't want a big table with labour on one side, employers on the other and government on another. We tried to get more creative about it and had them interspersed so people realized that we were all in this together.

As you know, when one union head was berating employers for past behaviour, those employers were sitting right next to him. It was really important that we arrived at those things together. The draft legislation, the legislation itself, and what we're talking about here with Bill C-58 is a direct result of it.

[Terry Sheehan, Liberal, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Minister, and the deputy and Ms. Proulx, for being here.

Minister, in the earlier panel, Lana Payne talked about a 71-year-old grandmother who's been replaced. She has been replaced for about a month right now. She has children and grandchildren. Obviously, that was very concerning.

Minister, can you describe how Bill C-58 will help create some fairness and some balance and help people like that 71-year-old grandmother who is currently being replaced by replacement workers?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bobby Morrissey]

Ms. Gray, the time has concluded.

We are here to review Bill C-58. Please keep relevant to the general tone of the bill.

Mr. Sheehan, you have six minutes.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Are we going to get to Bill C-58 at any point in time?

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

The point of order is irrelevance. We're here to talk about Bill C-58.

[Seamus O'Regan, Liberal, Minister of Labour and Seniors]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The labour movement has been telling us for years that replacement workers are bad, a distraction, and prolong labour disputes. We've listened, and now we're going to ban replacement workers.

I have spent a lot of time around the bargaining table over the last couple of years. It is hard work. It gets tense at times. It can be downright messy—and it works. It works. The federal mediation and conciliation service has resolved 96% of labour disputes within the last year. Four per cent of the time, I'm often seen in the media repeating the same message I always do, which is do the work and focus on the table, where the best deals are made—fair, lasting deals that benefit both the employers and the workers.

Sara Nelson, international president of the Association of Flight Attendants, said it very well:

Collective bargaining is problem-solving. Companies that have to participate in that usually have a better outcome, because they’ve had to think through things with labour at the table. And you take two groups that, you know, want dramatically different things, but in collective bargaining, they have to come together and there has to be problem-solving. And if we had that kind of thinking more...think about how different our politics would be.

Replacement workers distract from all of that. They prolong disputes and they poison labour relations for years after. With Bill C-58, we will ban the use of replacement workers in federally regulated workplaces during a strike or a lockout. That means no new contractors and no members of the bargaining unit crossing the picket line. The penalty for violating the ban will be up to $100,000 a day.

Of course, employers could use replacement workers if the health or safety of people or the protection of property or the environment were ever at risk. Bill C-58 is about stability, long-term stability, with strong labour relations that are forged through free and fair collective bargaining—free “and” fair. Right now, one side of the bargaining table is carrying a lot of the risk. You go too far in a negotiation and they lose. Their labour, their bargaining power—that can be replaced. With Bill C-58, both the union and the employer carry the risk. Both are motivated to stay at the table. That is what we want.

Look at the Port of Quebec, where workers have been locked out for 18 months. That's 18 months. Replacement workers have been brought in to do their job for 18 months. What kind of long-term solution is that? What kind of toxic relationship will that employer and that union have to repair for years to come? Collective bargaining is hard work, but right now, one side has a way out. As we say, the best way to settle disputes is at the negotiating table. I am not a believer in shortcuts.

Now, I have been asked what separates this bill from previous private members' bills. Let me just say that it is a liberal bill in the truest sense of the word. It is developed through tripartism to make sure we get the balance right.

We have something called the “maintenance of activities process”. That is an agreement for how employers and unions agree on what work will continue during a strike or lockout. It's a truce. It's a truce that remains intact even in the midst of a dispute. Right now that isn't required, and the system can be gamed.

Both employers and workers asked for improvements to this process during our consultations last year. When Bill C-58 passes, the employer and the union will be required by law to get together and determine what work needs to continue during a strike or a lockout, if any. We are setting clear timelines on this of 15 days for the parties to come to an agreement. If they cannot come to an agreement, the matter will be referred to the Canada Industrial Relations Board to resolve within 90 days. This is something that both unions and employers asked for. It means more certainty and more predictability in collective bargaining.

We believe in a free and fair collective bargaining process. We believe stability and certainty in our supply chains and services are essential. We believe these are not mutually exclusive concerns. They reinforce each other. This is important. Canada is a reliable trading partner to the world, but that credibility depends on the sustainable operation of our supply chains. It depends on strong, productive labour relations, and on parties staying at the table and reaching a deal.

Thank you. I'm happy to take your questions.