Bill C-10

Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation Act

An Act respecting the Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation

This enactment provides for the appointment of a Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation to conduct reviews and performance audits of the activities of government institutions related to the implementation of modern treaties. It also establishes the Office of the Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation for the purpose of assisting the Commissioner in the fulfillment of their mandate and the exercise of their powers and the performance of their duties and functions. Finally, it makes consequential amendments to other Acts.

Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation Act

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the temptation is to challenge the Conservatives when they say, “zero”. I suggest that the Whitecap Dakota Nation is one they might want to do a little research on, not to mention things such as the Manitoba Métis Federation, which, technically, is signed off. They can talk to President Chartrand, and I am sure he would be more than happy to give a full update on it. There are others, as well, where consultations with indigenous leadership in terms of reserves and other things need to be approved before it can be brought in.

The essence of what we should be talking about here is the fact that we have indigenous community leaders from coast to coast to coast who recognize the value of Bill C-10 and want it to be passed. It is only the Conservative Party in Parliament that seems to not value Bill C-10.

[Dominique O'Rourke, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I really appreciate my colleague's clarification.

Let me be clear: The commissioner could do reviews, audits and briefings to see how government programs are working and share what they find with ministers, indigenous partners and Parliament, including members opposite. Earlier in this conversation, one of the members opposite said that we could do this in question period. How many questions have we had in this session of Parliament on our obligations to our treaty partners? Any audit in any government would have a follow-up like this to make sure that the organization was meeting its audit findings.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today as the member of Parliament for Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge and as a proud Métis Canadian, one who wants to see first nations, Métis and all Canadians thrive and prosper. The opposite has in fact happened under 10 years of Liberal government. Crime is up, the cost of living is up, food bank usage is up, and hopelessness is up. The economy is down, opportunities are down, and employment is down. The malaise that is felt in Canada from the Pacific to the Atlantic and Arctic oceans is felt by all communities. It has been experienced among indigenous and non-indigenous people alike.

Bill C-10 is the latest example of what the government does best: announce, reannounce, repackage and then do nothing. It proposes a new bureaucracy, a commissioner for modern treaty implementation. This is something that sounds nice and reads nicely in a press release, but when we open the box, we see nothing. We see no real powers, no real accountability and no tangible outcomes, just more process and delay.

Canadians, indigenous and non-indigenous alike, are right to be frustrated. The government has had 10 years to act but has delivered zero new modern treaties. That is a fact.

In contrast, the Conservative government under former prime minister Stephen Harper produced five modern treaties that were signed in six years. Therefore, I ask what exactly the commissioner is supposed to do that has not already been done or that should not already be happening. Would the commissioner build new homes? Would the commissioner provide clean drinking water? Would the commissioner hire police officers or ensure that indigenous policing is treated as the essential service it is? No, the commissioner would not, because they would have no power. The mandate would be to strengthen relationships and uphold the honour of the Crown, but the commissioner could not compel action, enforce treaties or even table reports to Parliament without waiting for the minister's permission. In fact, Parliament itself could not direct what they should review or audit. Who would this office report to? It would be the very people it is meant to oversee. This is not oversight; it is a public relations exercise.

Let us be honest about what is really happening. The government knows that it has failed indigenous people again. It knows the Auditor General has issued dozens of reports, not just one or two, but over 14 just since 2015, detailing how the government has been failing indigenous, Métis and Inuit peoples in everything from housing to clean water and treaty implementation. What has the government done with these reports? It has ignored them. Now indigenous peoples, many of them rightly frustrated, are calling for more oversight, not because they believe that Ottawa will suddenly fix things but because government has refused to deliver on its own obligations. I do not blame indigenous leaders for their frustration. I do not blame them for trying every option. I do blame the Liberal government. Instead of fixing the real problem, which is that its own departments are not doing their jobs, it decided to create another layer of bureaucracy to give the illusion of progress.

We already have systems in place: the courts, the Auditor General, parliamentary committees, deputy ministers, performance frameworks, oversight committees, secretariats and internal audits. The government does not need another reminder that it is failing. It needs to start doing its job. The Auditor General has already laid out how to fix this, going back two decades. In 2005, there was a report on the treaty land entitlement obligations. In 2006, there was a report on the B.C. treaty process. In 2013, there was an audit on modern treaty implementation. In 2016, there was a report on the Labrador and Inuit Land Claims Agreement.

The Liberal government has had a map, but instead of following it, they got lost in their own maze of offices, titles and press conferences. While they were doing that, the communities were suffering, treaty rights were not being honoured, fiscal transfers were delayed, infrastructure was crumbling, the police were underfunded and housing was inadequate. Why do they think one more office will suddenly change anything? What might actually change something is accountability. This is what we should be asking: Who has been fired for all these failures? Who has been demoted? Which departments have been reorganized? What consequences have been imposed on those who have failed to implement the treaties that have already been signed? None. Zero.

As my colleague, the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley, himself a former treaty negotiator, said, why would anyone believe a powerless commissioner will get results when years of direct negotiation with the government haven't? He is right. The root is not oversight. The issue is a government that refuses to be accountable, that prefers symbolic gestures over real results. Let us remember what these treaties mean. Modern treaties are nation-to-nation agreements. They are not symbolic. They are legally binding. Indigenous governments negotiated hard for them. They traded undefined rights and titles for legal certainty under the laws of Canada. This is paramountcy. They came to the table in good faith. It is Canada that has not been holding up its end of the bargain.

Now, the Liberals are proposing a commissioner whose job would be to watch the government break its own promises politely. This is not reconciliation; this is theatre. Under the current government, and now under the new Prime Minister, we have seen more bureaucracy than ever: a defence investment agency duplicating what the DND already does; a $13-billion housing bureaucracy while no homes are built; and now this, a modern treaty commissioner with no teeth.

This is all for what? The Parliamentary Budget Officer just called this government's spending unsustainable. Canada now spends more on interest payments than it does on health care. Our economy is the slowest-growing in the G7, with the highest unemployment. Meanwhile, the Prime Minister, who took office in March, has not even tabled a budget in seven months. Two-thirds of the fiscal year is already gone and we have no budget, but somehow they are going to find money for another office, another round of talking points and another layer of bureaucracy that accomplishes nothing.

Canadians are tired of it; indigenous peoples are tired of it, and Conservatives are tired of it. We do not need a commissioner to tell us the government is failing; we already know that. We do not need another office to report on reports that are already gathering dust on bureaucratic shelves, and we certainly do not need a Prime Minister who refuses to lead.

Here is what we do need: We need the department to do its job; we need ministers who are accountable; we need indigenous peoples to be respected as equal partners, not clients of the state; and we need to uphold the honour of the Crown by fulfilling the promises we have made, not creating new positions to tell us we did not.

Reconciliation is not measured in how many offices we open in Ottawa; it is measured in homes built, water cleaned, treaties honoured, safety delivered and prosperity shared. Let us stop the charade. Let us scrap this hollow bill and get back to doing the hard work of government. Common-sense Conservatives will continue to stand with indigenous Canadians, with treaty partners and with all Canadians, believing in results, not reports; in leadership, not lip service; and in a government that does its job instead of just expanding itself.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, as we start to wind down the debate today, it has become apparently clear and somewhat sad that the Conservative Party has taken the position to vote against Bill C-10. This is legislation that puts into place an independent agent of Parliament that will be a strong voice in dealing with modern treaties. The Conservatives, for political and partisan reasons, have decided that only they believe this is a bad idea. We have indigenous leaders from coast to coast to coast who want to see the legislation pass. We have every other political entity inside Parliament wanting to see legislation of this nature, but the Conservatives have made their decision: They do not like the legislation.

Does the member feel any guilt at all in terms of rejecting what indigenous leaders across Canada want to see made into law?

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I think indigenous leaders are responding to the lack of action and respect regarding them and treaties. That is what they are responding to. They are grasping at straws, asking, “Let us do something.” Why? It is because the Liberals are not doing their job. What is the Liberals' solution here again? It is to build another bureaucracy to do something and to report not to Parliament but to the minister. That is not accountability; that is just another way to give plum jobs to their friends.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I salute my colleague, with whom I served for a long time on the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

When the Conservatives criticize and say that this is nothing but red tape, we have reason to be concerned.

The Bloc Québécois supports the principle of the bill. However, we see that it does not provide for the power to enforce compliance. It kind of reminds me of the Commissioner of Official Languages, as I said earlier, whose office was established over 50 years ago in 1970. Since then, French has been in decline and the assimilation rate of francophones has been going up. Year after year, the commissioner has expressed concern and criticized the government, but the government is not doing any better. It seems like things are only getting worse.

If a commissioner position is established, does my colleague agree that the incumbent should at least have the authority to compel the government to comply with the early treaties?

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague from the Bloc Québécois. We served together on the committee.

I truly believe that we do not need this position. It is a new position created to produce reports like the ones already being produced by the Auditor General and the courts. We do not need yet another thing that will make everything more complicated and slow the processes down even more.

[Kurt Holman, Conservative, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was nice to hear the thoughts of my colleague from Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge regarding Bill C-10. This bill would establish an independent commissioner and office. The Conservatives support modern treaties, but our concern is that the proposed legislation to establish an independent commissioner and office would add another layer of bureaucracy and cost to the government.

Does the member's opposition to Bill C-10 reflect the unwillingness to have accountability and/or oversight?

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives are not at all in opposition to accountability. We are for accountability, oversight and respecting treaty rights. We just have not seen this. We are concerned about another level of bureaucracy slowing things down. As I mentioned earlier in my speech, the one thing the Liberals are great at is gumming things up with red tape.

We are feeling it with projects. On the topic of resource projects, many first nations communities need resource projects, and what are the Liberals doing? They are strangling the prosperity of first nations. That is something the Liberals could address that would make a difference.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations]

Mr. Speaker, this evening I would like to share some thoughts on something that has been a lifelong passion for me, and that is ensuring the implementation of treaty rights and inherent rights in Canada.

In fact, besides studying treaties in law school and being a professor of aboriginal and treaty rights at Cape Breton University, I was honoured to be given the opportunity to be the first-ever treaty education lead for the province of Nova Scotia. While doing that job, I was honoured and privileged to be able to do some work with some of the treaty commissions that are already set up in certain provinces across Canada. We have the Office of the Treaty Commissioner in Saskatchewan. We have the Treaty Relations Commission of Manitoba. We have the B.C. Treaty Commission. I had the chance to meet with all of them and hear about the important work and the successes they are having across this country.

In fact, last week, or two weeks ago, I was in Treaty 4 territory in Manitoba, where treaty commissioner Loretta Ross told me that one of the best things the treaty commissioners were able to do there was to ensure treaty education was offered in all schools across Manitoba. Largely championed by Premier Wab Kinew, we have been able to see treaty education become mandatory in the province of Manitoba.

These treaty commissioners are doing some amazing work. I would invite the Conservatives who have been saying they are not going to support this legislation to reach out to them and hear about that important work in advancing reconciliation through building trust, through ensuring collaboration as treaty partners and through educating the public on the importance of sharing that we are all treaty people in this country.

The overall purpose and objective of this important piece of legislation is to ensure oversight and accountability to ensure the treaties we have signed are implemented. There are more than 27 modern treaties in this country, covering more than 40% of the land mass across this country.

Indeed, what we have heard from stakeholders and leaders is quite simply that we need to implement these treaties we have signed and made promises on. All we are asking, and they are asking, in the most simplest of terms is that we honour and obey, and if we make a promise we keep it. I think if we asked any indigenous nation across this great country what is important to them, they would ask us to honour the treaties, implement the treaties and be treaty partners.

I am troubled by what I am hearing from the Conservatives and the narrative that we are creating some sort of bureaucracy and that it would cost too much money to implement what we have signed on to in the 27 modern-day treaties. They talk about bureaucracy and they talk about money, but what they are not going to talk about is that when they go home tonight to their children, they are going to quite simply tell them that if they make a promise, they should keep that promise. That is what we are talking about.

This is not a surprise to me. I am the son of one of the original drafters of the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, who went to the United Nations for decades. When they finally got a declaration that all nations could sign on to, Canada, led by Stephen Harper then, rejected it and said, no, we would not vote for the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

Thankfully, as a Liberal, as a member of Parliament for my riding, I was able to help ensure that the Liberal government said it believed that first nations people should live without racism and was going to ensure that these rights were implemented. That is why we passed the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. However, when it came time for the Conservatives to decide whether they would support the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act, they once again voted no.

Twice last year, I got up in the House of Commons and asked for unanimous consent to give first nations clean water legislation, protecting their source waters. Twice I got up here. Twice I heard nays from the Conservatives. Twice I was shouted down and not even allowed to get the words out of my mouth on the protecting first nations clean water legislation. It would appear the Conservatives are showing their true colours again in delaying, denying and obstructing any legislation that benefits indigenous people.

Currently in my riding, there are land protectors in the Cape Breton Highlands who are protesting the decimation of the moose population and moose habitat. I went to see them, and while this matter is primarily one of provincial jurisdiction, what was required was a treaty partner that would show empathy, that would create education and awareness, that would look toward collaboration to resolve this. However, the Conservatives decided and believed that fines and jail were more appropriate.

I am proud to stand on this side of the House, which believes in taking steps toward reconciliation and treaty implementation and believes in education, empathy and collaboration.

I have heard from other members of the House that they want to see this legislation pass. They have said that we need to move forward, and not only on advancing reconciliation. Last week, we celebrated the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action, but I have not heard much from the Conservatives on what we need to do to implement and advance them.

In this House, I have a heard a number of times that, while the Conservatives support modern-day treaties and indigenous reconciliation, they are going to vote no on this legislation. I ask the Conservatives quite simply, in the few minutes I have here, to get on board, stop delaying this important legislation and allow us to move forward with unanimous consent.

Over the years, we have seen that the Conservatives are intent on delaying, denying and obstructing indigenous legislation. I am asking them tonight, the week after the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation, to stand with us to implement modern-day treaties and support this legislation.

The House resumed from October 7 consideration of the motion that Bill C-10, An Act respecting the Commissioner for Modern Treaty Implementation, be read the second time and referred to a committee.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am going to be blunt. The relationship between the Crown and indigenous peoples is not built on fancy titles or shiny new offices. It is built on honour and keeping our word, and the Liberal government has a real problem with that.

Bill C-10 is just another level of bureaucracy that is not needed. We do not need another office in Ottawa to tell us again that the government is not doing what it promised to do. We do not need a commissioner to point out failure. We can see that from here. We can see that in our communities all across our country.

In my riding of Cariboo—Prince George, indigenous leaders are living this each and every day. Just this week, Chief Willie Sellars and the Williams Lake First Nation council were in Ottawa. They did not come here looking for a handout. They came looking for partnership, especially on the reconstruction and redevelopment of the St. Joseph's Mission, a residential school in my hometown. They want real action, not more red tape, and who can blame them? In fact, when they asked to meet and discuss their plans, it was the Conservative Party that stepped up and said yes immediately. The shadow minister for indigenous services, the member for Edmonton Northwest, worked diligently to accommodate them, listen to them and make sure they had everything they needed.

Reconciliation has to be about more than words; it has to be a partnership. What I have seen in the last 10 years is the leadership on the other side standing, dabbing a fake tear, putting their hand on their heart and saying they really care, but what we have seen under the guise of reconciliation is that they have pitted first nation against first nation and first nation against non-first nation.

When Chief Willie and the council from Williams Lake First Nation asked to meet with our leader, the member for Battle River—Crowfoot stepped up immediately. He changed his schedule, took the time to listen, asked questions and worked to understand the path forward. That is what a real leader does. That is how we build trust. That is how we reconcile differences: leadership to leadership, not an agent of the government to leadership of first nations.

When they asked to meet with the Liberals, the government, the people with the ability to get things done, it truly was like pulling teeth. I know there are others on the other side, one of whom I am looking at right now at the centre of the Liberal caucus, who stand and say, as he does every day, that they have done this and that, but the reality is that the experience our leaders felt this week was less than desirable. Maybe if the Liberals spent less time creating new bureaucracies and more time actually listening, they would be in a better position to move our country forward on a whole host of issues.

I want to thank our shadow minister for Crown-indigenous relations, the hon. member for Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes, who, like the member for Edmonton Northwest and the member for Battle River—Crowfoot, stepped up, changed his schedule and took the time to listen.

Communities like Lheidli T'enneh, Nazko, Lhtako, McLeod Lake, Cheslatta and Williams Lake First Nation are working hard. They are building economies, creating jobs and planning for the future, not just for their community but for our regions. However, the federal government keeps tripping over its own departments. It picks winners over losers. As I said earlier, it pits first nation against first nation. It has endless delays, points fingers and makes promises with no follow-through. However, instead of fixing anything, the Liberals want yet another office on Wellington Street to tell us what the government is not doing.

We do not need more bureaucrats. We need the ones who have the jobs to do their jobs. What is happening right now in Williams Lake and around the province is unacceptable, full stop. For decades, families, ranchers and long-time landowners have been living in limbo because of unresolved land claims. People deserve clarity, they deserve honesty and they deserve a seat at the table. Instead, they are getting brushed off while decisions that directly affect their livelihoods are made behind closed doors.

Indigenous land claims are serious matters historically, legally and morally, and no one disputes that, but when governments mishandle them, when they communicate poorly and when they ignore the people whose homes, businesses and generational lands are in the middle of it, they create fear and distrust. That is exactly what is going on with the B.C. government right now in my province.

What we are seeing play out across British Columbia right now should concern every single one of us. The latest court rulings, including the Cowichan decision that threw long-established land titles in the city of Richmond into doubt, have sent a shockwave through communities and should send a shockwave across our nation. Families that worked their whole lives to build something are waking up wondering if the land they bought in good faith is still truly theirs.

Why are we at this point? It is because successive governments have abdicated their duties. Ministers of the Crown have passed on their duties and responsibilities and abdicated them to their agents. The sad truth is that people are asking these questions because governments at every level have failed to bring clarity, failed to lead and failed to protect the people caught in the middle.

Let us be clear. Indigenous rights and title matter. They must be respected, but respecting indigenous rights and treating landowners fairly are not mutually exclusive. The problem is governments that refuse to do the hard work. The governments that need to resolve these issues before they explode into uncertainty and anxiety for everyone are failing. Instead of stepping up, the province is dodging responsibility. The federal government is talking about creating new bureaucracies, with more layers, more delays and more confusion.

British Columbians need leadership, not another game of pass the buck. It is time for Ottawa and Victoria to get their act together, sit everyone down at the same table and finally build a process that delivers justice, certainty and stability for all. We have ministers of the Crown. Can they not meet with these first nation leaders and come up with a solution that is acceptable to all? Rather than stepping up and taking responsibility, the province is shifting the burden onto everyone else.

There are landowners in the Chilcotin who have waited 10 years to find out whether their farms, ranches and guide and outfitting businesses are worth anything. The province is shifting the burden onto everyone else, and the federal government, instead of bringing leadership, clarity and support, is floating the idea of yet another bureaucracy. It is another layer, another office and another department. It is another way for the Liberals to say this is not their problem while pretending they are solving something. It is another way for them to have plausible deniability.

We all know what this really means: more delays, more red tape, more confusion and more people left in the dark. Ranchers in Chilcotin are not asking for anything unreasonable. They are asking for transparency, for respect and to be heard before decisions are made, not after. Landowners are not the enemy and indigenous communities are not the enemy.

The real problem is governments that refuse to communicate and refuse to lead. This does not have to be a fight. These issues can be resolved through real partnership. That means the province doing the job it is responsible for. It means the federal government and the ministers making sure that Canadians are not caught in the crossfire. It means both levels of government recognizing that their decisions have real consequences: Families wonder if their land will still be theirs, businesses are unsure if they should invest or expand and communities are left uncertain about their future.

Passing the buck is not leadership. Creating new bureaucracies is not leadership. Ignoring the people directly impacted is not leadership. The people of Canada deserve better.

Our governments, provincial and federal, need to stop sidestepping responsibility, start doing the hard work and bring all parties together, with no more delays, no more excuses and no more hiding behind the process. They need to fix this. We do not need another level of red tape or another commissioner, who will likely be a friend of the Liberal Party and get a high-paying job. We do not need that. They need to fix this. They need to listen to the people who are affected and do the right thing.

I stand here today embarrassed. I was proud of the leadership of the first nations from my hometown who came to this town to present their vision for their community and our region. What I have seen is them being snubbed by the Liberal Party time and again, being passed down and being told, “I want to finish my coffee before I meet with them.” Yes, that is a direct quote; that was said to me.

I work through these issues in a non-partisan way whenever I can in my community. I am proud to bring people to our region. I will offer this. We do not need another level of bureaucracy and we do not need more red tape. We need the people at the heads of these governments to sit down and do their jobs right now.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, let me pick up on the word “embarrassed”. If the member is embarrassed, he should be embarrassed that the Conservative Party wants to do economic projects without any formal consent from indigenous communities.

He stands up and talks about reconciliation. He should listen to the questions the leader of the Conservative Party has put across related to pipelines.

How can the member possibly say that ignoring the interests of indigenous people in B.C. is a form of reconciliation? He has the audacity to say that we are not listening. Seriously, he should think about the issue.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Madam Speaker, I will take no lessons from the hon. colleague across the way.

For nine years, he stood behind a leader who dismissed the first female indigenous attorney general and absolutely ran her right out of his government. When first nations protesters came to one of his events, the previous prime minister yelled at them and said, “Thank you for your donation.” At every turn, he pitted first nation against first nation and first nation against non-first nation, and he hid behind reconciliation for all his misdeeds.

I will take no lessons from that colleague.

[Alexis Deschênes, Bloc, Gaspésie—Les Îles-de-la-Madeleine—Listuguj, QC]

Madam Speaker, what is going on right now is rather ironic. In fact, it is beyond irony. It is black comedy. Here we have a Liberal bill that we agree on, which talks about reconciliation with indigenous peoples and the need to consult them in advance. However, just yesterday, this same government announced an agreement to shove a pipeline down the throats of indigenous people in British Columbia that they do not want. I would like to hear my colleague's comments on that.

Does he not understand how resentful, if not completely alienated, all indigenous peoples in western Canada feel when they see that this government, which says that it wants to consult them before implementing international treaties, is announcing a pipeline and saying that it will consult them after the fact? In fact, it is clear that it will simply be shoved down their throats.