Afghanistan Committee on April 25th, 2022

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Chong, thank you very much for your intervention.

Now we'll move to Mr. Sidhu for five minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister and your hard-working team at IRCC, for taking the time to be with us today and sharing your insights. We very much appreciate how approachable you are about joining this very important committee.

Minister, in your department's news release of August 13, you listed the Manmeet Singh Bhullar Foundation as an organization you would be working with. Can you speak to the work and legacy of this group in terms of Afghanistan?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you.

First of all, I have had the opportunity to meet with representatives of the Manmeet Singh Bhullar Foundation. I know there are people sitting at this table who have connections to the organization. Maninder, your advocacy for them is really deeply appreciated.

I don't need to regale folks with a history of the organization. Obviously, he was somebody who made a remarkable contribution to public life in Canada and made it his mission, before he sadly passed away, to help resettle some vulnerable minority groups, including a group of Afghan Sikhs whom I had the pleasure to meet with during a recent trip with one of my colleagues, who happens to be chairing this committee.

When I saw the.... It blew me away. I'm sorry. I'm at a bit of a loss for words. There was a room filled with almost a hundred people—not all of them came in this particular instance from this one particular group—including a 75-year-old man who was wanting to work and give back to Canada. We had young kids who were very grateful to be there. Seeing this group, which potentially faced persecution, not just be welcomed in Canada but to come with a spirit of wanting to give back, it was really an extraordinary experience for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Just for the information of the committee, I met with Mr. Bhullar, Manmeet's dad, yesterday in Calgary, and there is only one family that is left. The other family, he told me, is here in Canada.

Mr. Sidhu.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister for those insights.

Minister, we are speaking about settlement agencies and the work that many groups here in Canada are doing. As you know, Canada has a stellar reputation of welcoming the world's most vulnerable. However, we know that getting them to Canada is only half the equation.

Minister, what are we doing to ensure that Afghan refugees have the support they need in order to succeed when they start their new lives in Canada?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

This is really important. I think sometimes, from the public's point of view, we think the refugee journey ends when the plane lands at the airport.

Mr. Sidhu, you joined me recently at Pearson, when we saw a group who arrived from Tajikistan. For the people who arrived, it was the beginning of a new chapter and an entirely new life. That chapter only starts out on a positive note if people get the kind of support they need when they are here.

To the point of your question, to make sure that people are set up for success, we rely on an extraordinary network of settlement agencies across Canada, as well as a partnership with the Province of Quebec to provide settlement services to new arrivals, to see groups being able to provide language training and in some instances child care, and to give them those supports they need to know such as how to sign up for a bank account or apply for a job. In those early days, it matters immensely.

I'm finding that people find a lot of comfort in being part of a community when they arrive, when they have folks who may be from their own country of origin, may have access to the restaurants they enjoy and can have a bit of a home in the new community where they arrive.

Our settlement agencies are very good at working with groups to provide those kinds of experiences, but whether you're talking about the hard, essential supports, such as housing or income support, whether it's the training offered through settlement agencies or whether it's those soft supports at the community level, we do whatever we can to make sure that people receive a full suite of supports, because when they do well, we all do better as a result.

[Maninder Sidhu, Liberal, Brampton East, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Through you, I'd like to thank the minister.

I think it's important that, as Canadians, we continue to support those who are most vulnerable. I know that Canadians across the country are stepping up. From my recent visit to Vancouver, meeting with local Afghanistan groups through the chair's office in Surrey, I know a lot of good work is being done, but I want to say thank you so much for the hard work that you and your department are doing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Sidhu.

We'll move to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

You have two and a half minutes. Please go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hope you'll find my tone acceptable.

We all know how precious every single day is for Afghan interpreters who worked with the Canadian Armed Forces, not to mention for their families. We all recognize the importance of their situation.

How does IRCC's process work for Afghans who still don't have Internet access?

Please keep your answer brief. I don't have much time.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Thank you. There have been a number of different things we have tried. Even in the early days, I think there were instances where departmental officials had taken to using WhatsApp to communicate with people, which was a more prevalent way of communication for people locally. Trying to figure out the way locals communicate is really important—

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Sorry, Minister, but I'm asking about those who currently do not have access to the Internet.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Okay.

Right now, given where our programs are at and the fact that we're using referral partners who are fairly sophisticated, I don't see it being a huge obstacle. However, for people who are trying to get into our programs and aren't there yet, they can also work with people in Canada who are trying to help them. To the extent that we don't have access to a person and the person doesn't have access to the Internet and who, because they don't have the personal connection, can't get paper copies, and for whom, even if they had paper copies, it might still be difficult to send them given their personal life situation, there are people who are facing obstacles as a result of that. I don't want to sugarcoat it, but we do, by working with groups who can represent them or advocate for them, have the ability to get them into a program that way.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I see.

At our last meeting, I asked witnesses why Canada had to subject interpreters to biometric testing when they had already been screened during the war. Everyone agreed that the practice made no sense. They have already gone through security screenings given that they worked for Canada's armed forces, and now, we are making them go through the biometrics process. I'm sure you would agree that finding a place to have photos and fingerprints taken isn't exactly easy.

Do you agree with all of the witnesses who appeared before the committee and said that the requirement made absolutely no sense?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

In the limited time I have, I will say that, when it comes to something as important as national security concerns, I like to listen to the advice of security agencies. Having a biometrics process in place is an important part of the process, and I'd remind you as well that there are a lot of people who did not necessarily get screened by the Canadian Armed Forces who could still be part of our program. I'll continue to follow the advice of experts in national security rather than trusting my gut on something.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

They nevertheless have status—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I am so sorry.

Generally, the tone in this committee has been perfect and I'm very happy with the way members have dealt with the past many months. I'm looking forward to the little more time that's left.

Now we'll move to Ms. Kwan for two and a half minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Former Afghan interpreters have advised us that applications submitted since January 12 have yet to receive a file number. That's about 65% of the 300. This is about the same time as the government began its effort to expedite the process for Ukrainians.

Could the minister advise us how many existing staff or FTEs were assigned to process the special immigration measures for Afghan nationals, and how many new staff or FTEs were hired and when? Was there any change in staff deployment by IRCC for the Afghan measures since August 2021? If the committee could get those numbers if the minister doesn't have them at his fingertips, I would appreciate it. I'd like those numbers broken down by staff and FTEs, new and existing in the month to which this applies, and then the offices as well as the streams.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Do we want to just see if our officials have those now?

I doubt they have that particular information at their fingertips, but if not, we can....

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Maybe just a quick answer, because I have a minute and a half.

[Catrina Tapley]

I have some, but I don't have it all. We have moved temporary duty officers into the region. We do them in rotations now to keep up that work. We have reprioritized staff from other lines of business to work on these particular lines of business, but for the exact number that we have used throughout, we'll have to get back to the member.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I would appreciate getting the exact numbers broken down by streams, months and offices.

Could the minister advise us on how many interpreters and collaborators who helped serve Canada are still in Afghanistan and how many of their family members are still in Afghanistan?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I don't have that breakdown by.... I'm sorry. You said, interpreters and collaborators. Can you tell me what you mean by “collaborators”? Are you talking about people who came in the SIMs stream?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

No, I mean people who actually helped and who may not necessarily be interpreters, but who also helped the Canadian military. They could be guards, for example, who worked at the embassy.