Evidence of meeting #10 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commitment.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Catrina Tapley  Deputy Minister, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Jennifer MacIntyre  Assistant Deputy Minister, Afghanistan, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Miriam Burke

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Good evening, everyone. I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 10 of the House of Commons Special Committee on Afghanistan, created pursuant to the order of the House of December 8, 2021.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. I would like to remind all those present in the room to please follow the recommendations from public health authorities as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy of October 19, 2021, to remain healthy and safe.

Should any technical challenges arise, please advise me as we may need to suspend for a few minutes to ensure all members are able to participate fully.

Before I introduce our witnesses this evening, I want to flag some scheduling changes for the honourable members. I have been informed that Minister Joly is available to appear on May 2. However, we were scheduled to hear from witnesses in the first hour and another panel of interpreters in the second hour. I propose that we accommodate the minister and Global Affairs Canada officials for the full two hours next week and reschedule the panel of witnesses to appear on May 16.

As we are quickly running out of time before we must submit our report to the House of Commons, we could ask the interpreters to submit a brief. As we have already heard from other interpreters and we got a brief from the other interpreters, I would suggest that the interpreters that were supposed to appear submit a brief to the committee. As you know, time is of the essence. We have to proceed with drafting instructions for the second half of the meeting that we are scheduling on May 16, and then consider the report on May 30 and June 6. Unfortunately, I'm told there is no possibility to add any time to any of our upcoming meetings.

If everyone is in agreement, then we will proceed with these changes in the schedule, and then I can introduce the witnesses.

I can see hands up. There are no objections, so thank you. The clerk will modify the schedule accordingly.

Now I would like to welcome the Honourable Sean Fraser, Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship. I have experience on another committee as well, and the minister has been very accessible.

Minister, I want to welcome you.

With the minister today we have Catrina Tapley, deputy minister; Jennifer MacIntyre, assistant deputy minister, Afghanistan; and Nicole Giles, assistant deputy minister, operations.

Minister, you are joining us for a full two hours today. Thank you to you and your officials. You have 10 minutes for your opening remarks. Please proceed.

April 25th, 2022 / 7:15 p.m.

Central Nova Nova Scotia

Liberal

Sean Fraser LiberalMinister of Immigration

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, members, for the opportunity to address this committee on the government's effort to resettle Afghan refugees.

Thank you for inviting me today.

As you know, following the humanitarian crisis in Afghanistan last summer, the government initially committed to resettle 20,000 vulnerable Afghan refugees. That commitment has now been increased to bringing at least 40,000 Afghan refugees to Canada as part of this effort.

I'm proud to say that we've welcomed over 11,500 Afghans to Canada, with more flights arriving every week.

Just last Thursday, over 330 Afghans who supported Canada's mission in Afghanistan arrived on a chartered flight from Pakistan to Calgary, with two more charters arriving this week with both privately sponsored and government-assisted refugees on board.

There are several distinct and specialized pathways that we implemented as part of this effort to resettle Afghan refugees. This, coupled with the unprecedented logistical obstacles and the dire situation on the ground in Afghanistan, has created very serious challenges to the program. That's why I'm pleased to be here today to answer any questions you may have.

I did agree to stay for the full two hours. I am supposed to be somewhere at 8:30, but perhaps we can stretch that. I'll leave it to you, Mr. Chair, to determine the logistics of the committee, given the motion that you've just adopted as well, but I am pleased to be here so that I can provide answers to some of your questions and whatever additional information and clarity I am able to.

I sincerely look forward to receiving recommendations from this committee's report to see what we can continue to do to support vulnerable Afghans.

Our programs include the special immigration measures for Afghan nationals, who, like those that arrived in Calgary last week, directly assisted the Government of Canada as part of our mission in Afghanistan.

As part of our commitment to resettle over 40,000 Afghan refugees, we plan to welcome approximately 18,000 individuals and families who had a direct, significant and enduring relationship with Canada through their work with the Department of National Defence or Global Affairs Canada.

We've implemented a special stream that is aimed at resettling 5,000 extended family members of interpreters who were already living in Canada and who were not included when family members were resettled in 2009 and 2012. We also implemented a separate humanitarian stream to welcome even more Afghan refugees based on certain particular vulnerabilities, including women leaders, LGBTQ2+ individuals, human rights defenders, journalists and members of religious and ethnic minorities.

As with our standard refugee programs, the humanitarian stream works through a referral system. Individuals don't apply directly to the program. Instead, individuals are referred by designated partners that are trained and experienced in assessing vulnerability and operating in situations of mass displacement and humanitarian hardship. Referral partners include organizations like the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, Front Line Defenders, ProtectDefenders.eu and Canadian private sponsors.

In light of the current situation in Afghanistan, and as an exceptional measure, we're waiving the requirement for refugee status determination for some private sponsorship applications, which broadens sponsor access to the program.

This is one of the ways we're continuing to work with the thousands of Canadians across the country who want to help any way they can.

In addition to all these special pathways, we're going to work with partners to use the economic mobility pathways pilot as well. This is an innovative program designed to help skilled refugees resettle in Canada, so we can welcome even more Afghan refugees.

By using our network of migration offices and implementing flexible approaches where possible, we've streamlined applications from Afghanistan to process cases as quickly as we can.

In every scenario, we're identifying and implementing creative solutions wherever we can find them. This includes measures like waiving certain standard requirements, expanding eligibility for certain prearrival supports, providing dedicated communication channels, delivering new e-application intake tools, undertaking biometrics collection trips and mobilizing significant resources.

By far, the biggest challenge is that many of the individuals selected under this special immigration program are still in Afghanistan. I need not remind members of this committee, amongst any parliamentarians, that this is territory that has been seized by the Taliban—a terrorist entity under Canadian law—and the Government of Canada has no military or diplomatic presence there. Our usual international partners are not able to provide the typical logistical support or arrange for travel in the ways you might see through a centrally managed effort that has a large presence with the UNHCR, for example.

Millions of Afghan refugees have fled Afghanistan. If we want to bring any 40,000 Afghan refugees who are already in third countries, I don't question that we would be able to deliver on that commitment more quickly. However—and this is an important element of this effort to me—we made a commitment to certain individuals and their families on the basis of their work with Canada. We don't plan to waver on that commitment, even if it means doing the harder thing, which is to continue to pursue all avenues to get them to Canada, despite the fact that they might still be in Afghanistan.

We're doing everything we can and innovating new ways to help Afghans inside and outside Afghanistan, including working with NGOs and engaging with other governments.

We're going to continue working to secure safe passage for those in Afghanistan, so they can travel to a safe third country, which allows us to complete application processing and facilitate onward travel to Canada.

We're working with partners in the region—whether they're our allies, other state partners, international organizations or non-profit organizations—so that we can identify a path forward. For example, we've been partnering with the veterans-led organization Aman Lara, which is helping evacuate individuals from conflict zones. They've assisted in the safe passage of now thousands of Afghan refugees who were destined for Canada.

The biggest hurdle from this mission, from my point of view and since I've been appointed as the minister responsible for this portfolio, is not the processing capacity of the Government of Canada, but the situational and environmental factors on the ground in Afghanistan. We share a lot of these challenges with other like-minded partners. We're not alone in the obstacles that we're facing.

It's important to put Canada's commitment to Afghan refugees in a global context. Unlike other partner countries in the region and some of our allies, we didn't have an established military presence in the months and years prior to the fall of Kabul, yet we have one of the largest commitments and efforts dedicated to resettling Afghan refugees. On a per capita basis, our goal of bringing at least 40,000 Afghan refugees to Canada places us among the top countries in the world when it comes to resettlement. In terms of raw numbers, we would be second only to the United States, which benefited from having a large military presence with logistical support that allowed them to evacuate a significantly larger number of people than all other nations. However, on a per capita basis, there's no question that ours is the most substantial refugee resettlement effort from Afghanistan globally right now.

I look at some of the other commitments that our partners have made. Again, in terms of raw numbers, a commitment of 40,000 is larger than that of the United Kingdom or Australia. It's the same commitment that's being pursued by the entirety of the European Union, more or less, which has 10 times our population.

We have a long-standing and proud tradition of welcoming the world's most vulnerable, and we'll continue working hard to bring people to Canada as quickly and safely as possible.

Since the fall of Kabul, IRCC has received over a million communications from those who have expressed interest in coming to Canada. Evidently, it's a far larger number than we could manage to bring to our country. Canada's going to continue to work with partners to provide crucial humanitarian aid to those who need it the most in order to support the people of Afghanistan in the years to come. We will be providing a new home to more than 40,000 Afghan refugees.

I know this is going to be incredibly hard news for a lot of vulnerable people, but the really hard reality is that not everyone who has expressed interest in coming to Canada is going to be part of this program. When you're dealing with more than a million requests—not all of them are formal applications—it's a really difficult thing, when you're trying to understand how we can do more to support vulnerable people but know that there are vulnerable people who will not be part of the effort. In the global context, again, with a hundred million displaced persons around the world, it's not feasible to resettle everyone who's vulnerable globally. This makes it a particularly challenging exercise.

As we've said, our priority is those who have directly supported Canada's mission in Afghanistan, families of interpreters and other Afghans from groups who are being targeted by the Taliban. I know that many have been waiting for a response from the Government of Canada regarding their eligibility under the special immigration measures stream. Over the next few weeks, we'll be communicating directly with hundreds of additional individuals who are newly eligible for the program, as well as many of those who are not going to be eligible at this time.

And let me be clear—we've been working hard to bring those who are already approved under this program to Canada, and more flights are arriving across the country every week. This is in spite of the severe operational challenges we and our allies are facing on the ground.

We also need to make sure that we support Afghans upon their arrival in Canada. Making this broad-reaching initiative a success will continue to require collaboration across the government, as well as with provinces and territories, resettlement and settlement services providers, private sponsors, francophone minority communities, other stakeholders and all Canadians.

We also established the national Afghan steering committee last August, which is led by Fariborz Birjandian. He's a former refugee and the executive director of one of the largest and most successful settlement agencies in Canada: the Calgary Catholic Immigration Society.

The steering committee is coordinating volunteers and donations on behalf of all resettlement assistance providers across Canada that are welcoming Afghan refugees into their communities.

It's sometimes easy to get lost in the numbers and forget the human element of this story.

More than 11,500 Afghans have already arrived in Canada. That's over 11,500 lives that have—

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Excuse me, Minister. I would like you to wrap up, please.

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Certainly. It's a good note to end on.

This is over 11,500 people whose lives have been drastically changed for the better as they're welcomed into their new homes and communities across the country after going through a nightmare that most people could never imagine.

I'll save the remainder of my remarks, and to the extent that I have an opportunity to work them into answers, I'd be happy to, Mr. Chair. I look forward to whatever questions the committee members may have for me.

Thank you.

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you very much, Minister, for your remarks and for being accommodating to the committee members in spending time with us today. We started at 7:11 p.m., and we'll end the meeting at 9:11 p.m.

Without any further ado, I would go the honourable members.

The first member is Mr. Hallan for six minutes. Please go ahead.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, perhaps we could just set aside the last three minutes of the meeting to go over the schedule you outlined at the beginning. I have a proposal to change the meeting of May 16.

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

We'll do that.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Okay. Thank you.

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Please go ahead, Mr. Hallan, for six minutes.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming to the committee. On April 11, we heard testimony from former Afghan interpreters. They were the ones who came here between 2009 and 2012. Because of the bureaucratic mess that your department created, they felt it was important to do a hunger strike on Parliament Hill to outline the failures of your government.

Do you know how many times you or your staff have met with them since October 2021?

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

I'll be off by a couple. I think they probably met about 28 times. They meet more or less weekly. I've met with them a couple of times myself, including since then.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

That's right. You and your department have met with them 29 times. Out of that, there were promises made to give them UCI numbers and to work with third countries to bring their families safely to Canada. Did you or your office make those commitments?

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

I try hard to only make commitments on things that I know to be true. I'll work my tail off to achieve that end. With this particular group, we opened up a new pathway, because we wanted specifically to bring the extended families of these previously resettled interpreters to Canada. It opened on December 9. I'm starting to see some movement as recently as the last number of weeks in terms of people who are making it through either the eligibility or security phase. You're testing my memory a bit. I think we're now at about 200 who have been through both the eligibility and security phase, another 150 for eligibility and more are being added now.

7:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

Minister, according to them, only about 35% of the families have received UCI numbers, and not a single family member has arrived here. Can you give an update or tell us when you expect those families to come to Canada? When can they get 100% of those UCI numbers, because, as you can imagine, six months is very unacceptable just to get UCI numbers?

7:25 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Let me say the people you're talking about are stellar individuals who've served Canada. We've created this program because we want to bring their families here. In terms of the date they're going to get here, I'll be honest with you, I can't give you that because they're still in Afghanistan, and some of them face really serious challenges with respect to safe passage. There are others who have made it to Pakistan and who face some unique challenges around leaving there. They have issues with their travel documents too. We're going to do everything we can to get as many of their family members here as possible, but I can't nail down a date with specificity, because these challenges are subject to factors outside of our control.

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

According to their testimony, after meeting 29 times, one of the results was that 16 more requirements were added by your department. Do you think that's acceptable?

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

Depending on what challenges you're talking about, some of it may have been an effort to actually avoid other steps, such as in-person interviews, that were not possible, so we could expedite the process despite the fact those weren't available. In and of itself, the number of requirements added is not a “make or break” when it comes to acceptable or unacceptable. It's a matter of whether we're doing everything we can to facilitate their travel to Canada. If that was what motivated those extra requirements, then I think it would be acceptable. If they were put up for the sake of delaying the process, obviously that would not be, but I expect it was the former, not the latter.

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

I'm changing topics now to the red tape, which is really rampant within your department. The Liberal-made backlog is so bad that the Veterans Transition Network is shutting down their operations in Afghanistan. Groups such as Ark Salus and Aman Lara, and other veterans' groups and NGOs, have done quite a bit. At that time, they were doing an evacuation plan, and your government was doing an election plan. They had to do on-the-ground work where your government had continuously failed. Now, because of all the stonewalling and all the other hurdles that are being put in front of them, the obstacles, they feel like they can't do it anymore and they're going to pull out.

Why has your department done that? Why are they stonewalling groups that are actually doing more groundwork that, in some cases, your government hasn't done?

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

With respect, first let me say thank you to all of the groups you mentioned, including the Veterans Transition Network.

I'd point out that Aman Lara has even stated publicly that it was pleased to be working with our office. They've now been responsible for the evacuation of about 2,700 Afghans and have a couple hundred more ready to go, with hundreds more each month. We're partnering with them as well. It's a veteran-run organization that knows exactly what it's doing. I think it's important that we maintain those partnerships.

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

Respectfully, Minister, the red tape has caused them to not want to do it anymore. It's unacceptable that a group that wants to step up is pulling out because of Liberal-made backlogs and the red tape that's been put in front of them.

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

Sean Fraser Liberal Central Nova, NS

I have to disagree with you on something here. I think this is really important.

With regard to the red tape issues, there are real bottlenecks in this mission, and then there's noise that we can always work on. However, the real bottleneck here is safe passage outside of Afghanistan. There are other issues as well, but the challenges we're experiencing are not a case of our putting up so many administrative hurdles for people to go through the process. It's not the processing capacity or any big inventory of cases. It's the fact that it's really difficult to move through territory that's controlled by the Taliban.

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

I would argue with that, Minister, because the rate of approvals is quite low compared with the rate for Ukraine.

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Mr. Hallan, your time is up.

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Jasraj Singh Hallan Conservative Calgary Forest Lawn, AB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

We're going to move to Mrs. Salma Zahid for six minutes, please.