Afghanistan Committee on April 25th, 2022

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Okay. I'll ask our deputy minister.

Do we have it broken down by that information to provide to the member?

[Catrina Tapley]

We would have that number for the applications that we have on hand, Minister. For those extended family members of interpreters who were resettled in 2009 and 2012, we believe all but 250 are still in Afghanistan. For those remaining SIM applications, Ms. MacIntyre—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

The time is up now. We'll come back to you.

[Jennifer MacIntyre, Assistant Deputy Minister, Afghanistan, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

It's just over 5,000, Mr. Chair. It's closer to 6,000.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Ms. MacIntyre.

Thank you, Ms. Kwan.

We'll move to Mr. Hallan for five minutes. Please go ahead.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the minister, through testimony in this committee, we've heard from different generals and majors and through the VTN and NGOs that there was a heads-up given months in advance. The UNHCR testified at this committee and said it briefed the government in January 2021 about Kabul falling. What we see is a repeated pattern of knowing what was happening and no action being taken.

Twenty-three of your own Liberal MPs warned the government in December 2020 about the fall, but the PMO told those members to mind their own business. It's a very concerning trend that we kept hearing. It caused a lot of chaos, as you know. IRCC gave the wrong information to applicants at the time when Kabul was falling. You and your government were worried about knocking on doors instead.

From January 2021 to the time of Kabul, was there any game plan at all? If there was, can that be tabled?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Before I answer, I have to say I appreciate that everybody's had.... Not to be the tone police, like our chair, but I think everybody's interested in collaborating. I think everybody wants to move the needle on this. I take exception to the idea that, because there was a federal election on the go, progress couldn't have been achieved. We saw thousands of people being resettled. I think that the election campaign was a particularly important one for the people we're dealing with—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Minister—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

No, I'm going to answer this question. We increased our commitment from 20,000 to 40,000 people. I didn't see a similar commitment in your election campaign. I look back to 2009 and 2012, and I see a total effort that brought 800 people here and their families were left behind.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Minister, I will tell you that because of the campaign, MPs' offices were shut out from—

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

If we want to turn it into a partisan effort—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

—making inquiries.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Hallan, can we be a bit more respectful and let the minister speak? I usually don't cut people off. I would love to see that you want to hear what the minister has to say.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

It's the tone of it.

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

I will wrap up. I don't want to turn this into a partisan bickering match. I have to say that everybody at this table, on Ukraine, has been pulling in the same direction.

Alexis, you've been advocating for chartered flights. We're moving forward with chartered flights and other solutions. Jenny's been great in raising the need to do biometrics in third countries.

Jasraj, you've been great in talking to me about the need to help people here—

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I only have a bit of time. My point is that there were months of preparation when things could have been done, but nothing was done.

There was an election. We will hear from your side that an election was important enough to abandon the people from Kabul. We know that some of the decisions made by IRCC cost people's lives. They were sent to the wrong gates at Kabul airport. They were told to wear red and they were targeted by the Taliban. To say that it was an important election, I would wholeheartedly disagree and many Canadians would too.

The fact is and the reason I'm raising this is that we don't want this to happen again. This crisis that happened in Afghanistan highlighted the fact that IRCC, under the Liberal government, cannot do two things at once. It cannot do everyday business. We saw that because our MPs' offices were shut out from making any types of inquiries because of the election. All of the resources were being pumped into Afghanistan. That's what we know. Every MP can attest that we could not make regular, everyday inquiries during that time. It's because a selfish election was called.

Again, your government had months to prepare. Was any plan made between January 2021 and July 2021? Was any step taken in between that time?

[Sean Fraser, Liberal, Central Nova, NS]

Let me clarify. When I said the election was important, I meant on the issue of resettlement of Afghan refugees. We made a commitment in our election platform campaign to resettle 40,000 Afghan refugees. To the additional 20,000 who are going to get here because of that campaign commitment, I think it was very important.

As a point of contrast, I've yet to see what my honourable colleague's plan was to welcome people from Afghanistan.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

We had a very clear plan. Because of the Liberal-made backlog and bureaucratic mess under the Liberal government, our plan was to create more private sponsorship. I privately sponsored a family. It took the Liberal government four years to get them here. We knew, as Conservatives, that we needed to get away from the bureaucratic mess that the Liberal government created and have more private sponsorship, because it's a better way to go. There's less burden on taxpayers that way as well.

We had a very clear plan in our platform.

I would just like to, if I could.... I believe I'm up but—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I'm sorry, Mr. Hallan. Your time is up.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

On a point of order, can we get a few documents tabled?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I will allow you to proceed on a point of order.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

I'd like the officials to table a few things, specifically, any instructions that were given to IRCC employees for processing Afghan refugee cases and Afghan special immigration measures cases from January 2021.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

Chair, this isn't a point of order.

[Yvan Baker, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Yes, it's not a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. Damoff, please go ahead for five minutes.