Afghanistan Committee on May 9th, 2022

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I'll just finish by saying there seems to be a disconnect between what we were told at the time at parliamentary committees and what U.S. congressional members were told at the time by their respective militaries about how well the training mission was going on and what military members on the ground at the time were telling their more senior reports.

I hope there are lessons learned from all of this, because clearly the members on the ground had it right, and the senior military commanders, who told both Parliament and Congress something very different, had it wrong, and I think the events of last August proved that to be the case.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chong. Your time is up but I will give the floor to General Eyre.

Please, go ahead if you'd like to respond.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, I'm not sure I have a good response to that other than to say that I wasn't here for that testimony that was given.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Honourable Mr. Chong.

We'll go to Mr. El-Khoury for four and some minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The fall of Kabul was a surprise for most of the world. Was it a surprise for you or did you know in advance? If yes, for how long—months, weeks, days, hours?

What was the reaction, and what was the coordination between the commander on the field and the headquarters and the other allied forces over there?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Chief Eyre.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Mr. Chair, that's another great question, and it speaks to the intelligence that we talked about before, about its becoming increasingly apparent that the Afghan government would not be able to hold on, but we were not sure about the timing.

We can look at historical analogies, which are always useful. In 1989 when the Soviet Union pulled out, there were many forecasts that Afghanistan would fall immediately, but the government held on for three years because the money kept following. In 1842, with the British in Kabul, it changed overnight, and the city turned against them. And so historical analogies in this case didn't exactly play out.

However, with the number of government forces that were moving back into Kabul, there was a sense that, yes, there would be the ability to hold on to the capital city for longer than actually was the case.

Yes, there was a certain degree of surprise even though the intelligence was showing that there was some inevitability to this, but I also think the Taliban were surprised by this, by the rapidity of their victory, and we've seen some intelligence to indicate that as well.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I think we all wish that Canada could have evacuated more people. I want to take this opportunity to thank the members of the Canadian Armed Forces and everyone at the Department of National Defence—especially those who are with us today—who supported the airlift evacuation effort.

I think it's worth trying to understand the reality on the ground and the barriers that existed at the time in relation to possibly staying on the ground longer or planning evacuation flights sooner.

Can you talk about some of those challenges?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, General Eyre.

[Gen Wayne D. Eyre]

Thank you for your remarks.

I am very proud of our members and what they accomplished during the crisis.

What else could we have done? What else could have been better?

Well, I talked earlier about our strategic lift and that capability that we currently have. Fifteen years ago, when we didn't have this capability, we could not have done this operation. I think that capability is a game-changer.

We haven't had any questions directed to the commander of the air force, Lieutenant-General Al Meinzinger, and I'll just ask him to jump in and talk about our strategic lift capability, because it is so important for what we did in Afghanistan, what we're doing to support Ukraine today and what we're doing to support operations around the world.

Thanks.

[Lieutenant-General A. D. Meinzinger, Commander, Royal Canadian Air Force, Department of National Defence]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.

Indeed, I like the term “game-changer”. I think the investment we made 10 to 15 years ago in acquiring a C-17 fleet has really contributed to our ability to be a global military. I reflect back on the mission in Mali—

three years ago

—where we were able to project a task force into the desert of Mali largely by utilizing our C-17 fleet. I think the strategic lift, as we saw play out in this context, proved to be invaluable.

I would just like to add to the comments made about the team. I couldn't be more proud of the crews and of the maintenance personnel who were back in Kuwait and who worked largely 24-7, surged over a two-week period, to keep that mission going. It was an all hands on deck effort, and I think we should all be proud of that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. El-Khoury.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Is there any more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Your time is done, and this brings our meeting to an end.

Madam Kwan, shall I thank the witnesses and then come back to you?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Okay.

First, on behalf of the committee members, I would start by thanking Deputy Minister Matthews for his public service and for being with us today. I appreciate that.

Now, to the leadership team of our country in uniform, I'll start with Chief of the Defence Staff General Eyre. Thank you, General, for being here and thank you for the sacrifices and your commitment, as well as the commitment of the whole leadership and the men and women in uniform who defend our nation, Canada.

Next with us is Vice-Admiral Auchterlonie. Thank you for being with us here as well, and again, thank you for your service, sacrifice and commitment.

We also were joined by Major-General Boivin, who was with us virtually. I want to thank you, Major-General, on behalf of the committee members. Thank you for your service and commitment to our great nation.

Last but not least, Lieutenant-General Meinzinger, thank you, and thank you for finishing the conversation as well, and your commitment and the sacrifices that you and your team members have made.

So many thanks, and I—

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

And Major-General Boivin online....

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I already mentioned him.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

Did you mention him? Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Of course, if my own member wants to bring it to my attention, because she's my honourable member representing me, Madam Findlay, I did acknowledge Major-General Boivin.

[Kerry-Lynne Findlay, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock, BC]

I just thought it looked lonely attending virtually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

Now I'll take the last few seconds to hear from Madam Kwan before I adjourn the meeting.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wonder if the committee can indulge this request.

In light of what we've heard from the representatives from the Department of National Defence, I am wondering if we can ask IRCC to confirm that they have received the 3,800 applications referred by DND and advise us how many have been processed with an invitation and assigned a G number, how many have arrived in Canada and when could the rest of the 2,900 applications expect to be processed.

If I could ask the committee, through the clerk, to submit that request to IRCC.... I don't know if I need a motion in that regard. If I do, I'll move that as a motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

If there's unanimous consent among the membership, then she's okay. Do I see unanimous...? No, there's no unanimous—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I wasn't asking for unanimous consent. I'm just moving this as a motion.