Afghanistan Committee on May 20th, 2022

[Dr. Kimahli Powell]

Absolutely. Thank you for the question. I'd love to respond to you in French, but then I think my address would be too long, so I'll speak in English.

There are two specific ways we work with the government.

First, there's a rainbow refugee assistance partnership, which the government has often mentioned. That allows community partners across the country to identify people for private sponsorship into the country. It's a good model. It's a model for the world. I actually sat with the minister in a meeting yesterday in New York to describe the benefits of that program.

As well, and to the point that I'm about to address, we've worked with the government on public policies in the past to identify people at risk in various circumstances, and to allow them to use ministerial authority to get into the country. That is why we're specifically mentioning the use of section 25. There's ample precedent for this, and this is a really easy win for the government to help a vulnerable population that they have identified as being of concern.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Can you tell us a bit more about the well-being of LGBTQ community members during the period from 2001 to 2021?

What do you think what will happen to them now that the Canadian special forces withdrew from Afghanistan in 2021?

What kind of a situation are those people in right now?

[Dr. Kimahli Powell]

I'll go even a step further. From 1996 to 2001 when the Taliban had control, we saw already that under sharia law LGBTQ+ persons often faced severe attacks by the Taliban. During the period of the conflict, there was an easing of those direct persecution acts and there was a small civil society that was able to function.

Again, in the report that we participated in with OutRight Action International and Human Rights Watch, many people reported an easing and the ability to live quietly, still in a country that criminalizes same-sex intimacy, but without being actively targeted.

Immediately after the takeover by the Taliban, there was sharp shift. The sense of pervasive lawlessness that presided in Afghanistan has meant that individuals were subject to raids, and if you were not dressed in traditional Afghan wear, you were often targeted further. Anyone who was perceived to be a member of the community was subject to beatings. Usually they would be targeted through beatings and then told that the attackers would return to harm them further. That's when most people fled. People were being turned over by family members, community members and former sexual partners. There was a really pervasive sense of violence towards the community.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Ms. Meighen, would you say that the humanitarian component created in 2021 to help vulnerable individuals has reached its objectives? Should the program have been expanded to enable it to reach its objectives, despite the limited flexibility of the forces on site?

[Warda Meighen]

I would suggest that there has certainly been room for streamlining. Officials have worked very hard, and a number of people have arrived, of course. We see those numbers. Absolutely, we should continue those programs. I understand that currently the 2,000 or so spots left in the special immigration measures are spoken for. That program should continue because individuals who have a connection to Canada are still not processed, and we can continue these programs to allow for them to also come through.

In terms of whether the programs have achieved their purpose, I think it's a continuing purpose, and as long as we have individuals who still require safety and who fit within the mandate of the programs we have set out, we should continue the programs.

[Fayçal El-Khoury, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Ms. Meighen, you know that women in Afghanistan are living in terrible conditions.

Can you tell us more about the plight of women in Afghanistan during the period from 2001 to 2021?

What can be done to help the girls and women who have been stuck over there since last fall?

As a lawyer and a consultant, what do you think about the role Canada has played to help the people of Afghanistan compared with other countries around the world?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Be very brief, please. Time is almost up.

[Warda Meighen]

We can create a special program, much like the one Mr. Powell is mentioning, under section 25.2 to allow at-risk women and children to come through on special measures if the mandate under the humanitarian program hasn't been able to do that because of the different obstacles that have been outlined in front of this committee.

We can also prioritize using biometric facilities for this demographic where they've been offered to us by the allies.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. El-Khoury.

Now we'll go to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe for six minutes.

Please go ahead.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for joining us today for this important study.

Your backgrounds are different, but your expertise will help us produce this report and make our recommendations.

Ms. Meighen, you are an immigration lawyer. We are increasingly noting, following the Afghan, Ukrainian and Syrian crises, and even following certain crises like the one in Haiti, involving natural disasters, that the IRCC's response is always very slow. So some people are wondering whether we should implement an emergency mechanism at the IRCC, with various criteria that could apply differently depending on the context of a crisis that may occur tomorrow morning, in two years or in seven years.

Would you be in favour of the IRCC implementing that kind of a mechanism to respond much faster to future crises?

[Warda Meighen]

Thank you for the question.

Absolutely, we should have a standing body that has the authority from the central government to respond very rapidly.

One of the challenges we found in this crisis and a number of the other ones you mentioned is that IRCC also has to rely on its partners within Global Affairs and within Public Safety, so it's really an interdepartmental effort, which is why I proposed the standing cabinet committee so that every minister who is needed to make a very quick political decision is at the table. This committee should also have working groups with experts, regional experts, immigration experts and national security experts who can advise on a moment's notice on any tricky issue so there isn't that coordination issue that we've seen in the past.

This committee should also be given earmarked resources so that it's not straining IRCC officers and staff, on whom there are already currently many demands. It should have separate staff and it should have separate resources that are earmarked.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

It would be sort of a reserve force.

I know that border services officers have immigration training and can use biometrics. Those people could be used to reduce the backlog in the work of IRCC employees and help them do their job normally.

Isn't what you are suggesting some sort of an immigration reserve force?

[Warda Meighen]

I'm proposing a body that would exist within Canada and have all of the key decision-makers needed to put forward any decision on a refugee crisis.

With respect to the biometrics piece, I think it will depend on which country we're looking at. With Afghanistan specifically, you're right that there are Veterans Affairs, CSIS and CBSA. Other parties have offered biometric capabilities that we can leverage. We also want to explore this with our foreign allies within Afghanistan to see if we can leverage their biometric capabilities as well. That should be a standing approach that is embedded within this body that I'm referring to.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Mayar, I heard you speak earlier. You seem to be really upset about this, which is understandable in the current context. The Canadian government told interpreters that it could bring over their family members quickly.

In light of what has been done in concrete terms and the outcome, do you feel that you were ultimately lied to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Mayar.

[Mohammed Zarif Mayar]

I didn't get the question. It's not clear to me. Could you repeat that question, please?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe, please go ahead again. I'll stop the watch.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Canadian government told interpreters that it could bring over their family members quickly. In light of what has been done in concrete terms, do you feel that you were deceived, that you were lied to?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Mayar.

[Mohammed Zarif Mayar]

Thanks for your question, first of all.

Regarding your question, the Canadian government did something for the people, as I said before. I don't know if it was a political thing or what. They brought just 12,000—they have the numbers. They'd know better than I. They have the numbers. It was 12,500 people from Afghanistan, new refugees, but there should be, since the Prime Minister said we will be looking for people coming from Afghanistan to Canada, almost 40,000, so there are a lot of people remaining right now.

With regard to me, I wasn't able to get to the airport with the chaos, so I stayed over there. I was hiding from the Taliban for at least 40 days and after that there was an organization called Aman Lara that called me, and I went to Islamabad. From there I came to Canada.

The process was very long, and right now there are a lot of families—I don't know the numbers but there are a lot of people still on hold and still waiting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you very much, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe. I'm sorry but time is up.

Mr. Hotak, could you please follow the instructions on your screen and accept it?

Now we'll go to Madam Kwan for six minutes.

Please go ahead, Madam Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for their presentations.

I had to give a speech in the House, so I missed the presentations, but I think I heard, as I was coming in, Ms. Meighen commenting that there should be a special sort of operation within government to continue the operation of bringing Afghans to safety. To that end, I wonder if you can comment on this. Do you think the government should request that the Department of National Defence lead a mission to help bring more Afghans to safety and to work in collaboration with allied countries to address the biometrics issues and other issues in an effort to bring more Afghans to safety?

[Warda Meighen]

We would very much welcome that. Yes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

In the instance where biometrics could not be obtained for obvious reasons.... The government is saying that people have to go to the Taliban office to get a passport. You can imagine what that will be like. There will absolutely be a bull's eye put on them. They will not be able to get those passports, and without those passports, they cannot get to a third country. Without getting to a third country, they cannot get to safety.

From that perspective, if we've exhausted all of these options, given that people's lives hang in the balance, should the government then waive the biometrics and other documentation requirements until the Afghans are safely here in Canada? Once they're safe on Canadian soil, we can then go through the process and do all of that work.

[Warda Meighen]

Yes. I think that's something we've done in other contexts. We've done that in the context of Kosovo, for example, with onshore processing. Absolutely we should look at that if biometrics in Afghanistan is just not working.

To the extent that we have inadmissible individuals who are found on Canadian soil, we have the provisions in our immigration regime to deal with that. We shouldn't look at that as a failure of the system. It's actually the system working. We have mechanisms in the immigration regime to take care of inadmissible persons when they're found within the biometrics process, I'm sure.