Afghanistan Committee on Jan. 31st, 2022

[Dr. George Varughese]

Thank you, honourable member. It is very clear that this is not a priority for the de facto administration, along with other minority concerns. As you know, providing security, even for minorities.... I think minorities have been a struggle for them. They are trying to do their best, but attention to the LGBTQ community is not a priority for them. We don't really see actions related to that. Of course, in all the exchanges we have witnessed, they have given some messaging to allay fears that all Afghans should stay, that all Afghans are welcome to stay, and that they will be supported, but the actions on the ground are few and far between.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Madam Kwan from the NDP, you have five minutes, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for the work you're doing.

My first question is for you, Mr. Messenger, related to the issue around the anti-terrorist regulations and laws that Canada has in place. You mentioned Criminal Code section 83.03. One of the issues that I think the government could undertake to address is to provide an exemption to organizations such as yours so that you can actually deliver the urgently needed humanitarian aid in Afghanistan. Has that request been made by your organization to the Canadian government?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mr. Messenger.

[Michael Messenger]

Yes, as I mentioned, we've had constructive dialogue on this, including proposing a number of options and sharing an external legal opinion that would suggest that section 83.09 of the Criminal Code may allow the Minister of Public Safety to carve out an exemption. We think we should look pragmatically at how that can happen. We've had ongoing engagement.

At the moment, to date, we're not aware of an acceptable solution that would immediately help us address the horrendous challenges we're facing without leaving our organization at considerable risk of being in breach of the Canadian criminal or anti-terrorist or sanctions regime. It's a challenging risk for us in the face of uncertainty.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Can you advise us on when you had that conversation with government officials?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mr. Messenger.

[Michael Messenger]

As I said, we've had constructive dialogue for several months now. A number of parts of government have been seized with this issue, but we have not yet resolved it. It goes back to, certainly, the fall since we've had conversations around the possibility of raising this issue. World Vision along with other organizations has raised this and has had this ongoing dialogue.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you. If you could table all relevant documents to the committee for our consideration, that would be very much appreciated.

I'm also wondering about this: Has the government been asked to provide explicit guidance to Canadian CSOs on what is permissible within the current regulatory regimes? Other jurisdictions have done it. Has the Canadian government offered any assistance to you in this regard?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mr. Messenger.

[Michael Messenger]

As I said, we've had back-and-forth constructive conversations. We've raised a number of the issues and the need for an exemption or guidelines exactly as you suggest. We have been received with great interest. We understand that various ministers, including Minister Sajjan in Global Affairs, have been focused on this, but to date we have not yet received any guidelines that would allow us to release the funding or the goods that we mentioned before that we'd like to get to Afghanistan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

Well, time is of the essence, and the urgency is clearly there. I can't imagine what it must be like for your workers and your organization to not be able to deliver aid when you see the crisis that exists right now, where children are literally starving. I would say that time is of the essence. We need the government to respond ASAP.

I want to turn to a different question for the representative from the UNHCR. Part of the issue, of course, with the resettlement support—which is not the only solution but certainly part of the solution—is that people within Afghanistan cannot get UNHCR designation. This is an ongoing problem. People have to get to a third country to get to safety to access that.

I wonder whether or not this is an issue that has been brought up by your organization with the minister and what suggestion you might have to address this crisis. Would waiving the UNHCR designation requirement at this time, under these extraordinary circumstances, be appropriate?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Ratwatte or Ms. Jamous Imseis.

[Indrika Ratwatte]

Thank you, Madam Kwan.

As my colleague mentioned, by mandate and international law, refugees have to cross an international border as refugees to benefit from UNHCR's work and solutions. One part of what we are doing right now is really robustly increasing our resettlement capacity in the neighbouring countries, because Afghans are coming across to these countries, but within Afghanistan we have advocated for bilateral mechanisms to enable Afghans to get out of Afghanistan. At whatever third locations they can then come to, we are available to extend our good offices, but waiving that requirement at this point in time, Madam Kwan, I don't think would be possible.

Thank you.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Yes, within UNHCR, that is not something within your authority to do, but it's certainly within the Canadian government's authority to do so, as is allowing people to get to safety. Otherwise people in dire circumstances would not be able to do so.

I wonder, Mr. Messenger, if you've seen on the ground, for the women and the girls particularly who have been actively persecuted or who are in hiding, what they can do to get to safety if refugee status cannot be obtained?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Messenger, be very brief. Your five minutes is up.

[Michael Messenger]

This is a challenging question. I'm going to ask Ms. McKinlay to answer since she is closer to what's happening on the ground.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ms. McKinlay, go ahead, please.

[Julie McKinlay]

Thank you.

That's a very challenging question in a short amount of time. The situation is changing minute by minute. We do what we can to support our teams on the ground and encourage them to find the safest point they can, but that does change. There's a lot of uncertainty and lack of clarity, I think, even for our teams who have submitted applications for asylum to other countries. An encouragement would be ensuring that there is a response to those applications so families know what their status is and can plan accordingly, but it's very challenging.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Madam Kwan.

With this, we'll end this panel. On behalf of all the members of Parliament and all parties, I would like to thank all of you witnesses for the pertinent information you have brought forward. I would like to thank you but also request that if you have anything further to submit, please do so to the clerk, and then we'll be able to incorporate that information.

Thank you again. All the best to you all. With this, hopefully, I have a consensus of committee members to adjourn the meeting.

Thank you.

We are adjourned.