Evidence of meeting #4 for Afghanistan in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghans.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Asma Faizi  President, Afghan Women's Organization Refugee and Immigrant Services
Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Miriam Burke
Amy Avis  General Counsel, Canadian Red Cross
Aziz Amiri  President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council
Erica See  Senior Legal Counsel, Canadian Red Cross
Major-General  Retired) David Fraser (Major General (Retired), Afghan Strategic Evacuation Team, As an Individual
Oliver Thorne  Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number four of the House of Commons Special Committee on Afghanistan.

Pursuant to the motion from the House adopted on December 8, 2021, and the motion adopted by the committee on December 13, 2021, the committee is meeting to study the humanitarian assistance measures in place to bring relief to the Afghan people.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of November 25, 2021. Members are attending in person and remotely, using the Zoom application. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entirety of the committee. To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow.

Please note that screenshots or taking photographs of your screen are not permitted.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French. If interpretation is lost, please inform me immediately and we will ensure that interpretation is properly restored before resuming the proceedings.

For members participating in person, please keep in mind that the Board of Internal Economy guidelines for mask use and health protocols are in place. As chair, I will be enforcing these measures for the duration of this meeting. I thank you in advance for your co-operation.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When speaking, please speak slowly and clearly. When you are not speaking, please ensure that your microphone is on mute.

I would remind members and witnesses that comments should be addressed through the chair. I would prefer that, even though I am very lenient on this, as you have probably noticed in the last meetings.

I would now like to welcome our witnesses and express our appreciation for them being with us today. Please note that witnesses have five minutes per organization for their opening remarks.

From the Afghan Women's Organization Refugee and Immigrant Services, we have Asma Faizi. From the Canada Afghanistan Business Council, we have Aziz Amiri. From the Canadian Red Cross, we have Amy Avis and Erica See.

On behalf of the committee, welcome again, witnesses.

I will start with Asma Faizi for five minutes, please.

6:35 p.m.

Asma Faizi President, Afghan Women's Organization Refugee and Immigrant Services

Thank you, Mr. Chair and the committee, for the opportunity to appear before you.

For over 30 years the Afghan Women's Organization, AWO for short, has been providing settlement services to newcomers to Canada with a special focus on women, their families, refugees and people who have experienced war and persecution. AWO is also a sponsorship agreement holder and has successfully resettled over 5,000 refugees from around the world.

AWO is founded and led by Afghan women and is a staunch advocate for the human rights of Afghan women and girls. AWO has led several projects inside Afghanistan, including home-based and underground schools for Afghan girls as well as educational and income generation projects for women. Currently, AWO runs an all-girls orphanage in Kabul.

Since last summer AWO has supported Afghan refugees who have been evacuated to Canada, has sponsored vulnerable Afghan refugees to Canada, has provided support to vulnerable Afghans in Afghanistan and has also been engaged in many advocacy efforts.

We thank the Canadian government for its commitment to resettle 40,000 Afghan refugees and provide $50 million in humanitarian aid. This pledge reflects Canada's long-standing and continuous bipartisan support to ensure stability and respect for human rights in Afghanistan. Canada's investments have advanced tangible progress in the areas of health, education and women's and girls' rights. However, we are concerned that Canada's investments in Afghanistan are severely threatened due to the country's dire humanitarian crisis, which is fuelled by both a lack of response on the part of the international community and the Taliban's inability to be an inclusive and representative government for all its people.

The crisis inside Afghanistan is intensifying at an unprecedented rate. More than three and a half million Afghans are internally displaced, of which 80% are women and children, 23 million people are in desperate need of food and at least one million children are at risk of dying due to severe, acute malnutrition. Human rights are threatened with shrinking civic space. Women have been barred from working in certain sectors, their movement restricted, and higher education for women is uncertain. We are also concerned for women civil society activists who are being abducted and about gender-based persecution of women.

What is needed now is urgent action to protect those at risk and help address basic needs. Canada's humanitarian assistance objectives should ensure that aid gets to the most vulnerable by easing restrictions on getting funds to independent, trusted NGOs and multilateral organizations. They should have a long view that aid should be given in a way that opens up a pathway for reviving the economy and addressing development needs beyond preventing economic collapse. In line with Canada's feminist foreign affairs practices and international assistance policy, Canada should work with Afghans in the diaspora to centre the voices of Afghan women and local communities in the decisions about how resources will be disbursed.

Many donors have generously donated to emergency relief efforts to deliver food and other basic necessities; however, these short-term measures are not enough since this is not a natural disaster. Afghans find themselves at the intersection of four decades of war imposed on them, political and economic instability, corruption, widespread human rights abuses, a global pandemic, back-to-back droughts in the past four years and a harsh winter. Women and children have been at the front line and are disproportionally affected.

Afghanistan is also facing economic isolation and many Afghans have not been paid for months and lack essential services. The World Bank's Afghanistan reconstruction trust fund, a pool of aid to which Canada and other donors contributed, has unspent money that could be allocated immediately to health, education and other social services.

Some funding should be delivered to the public sector in areas such as agricultural support and village-level development programs. We should be empowering the local communities by providing them with the tools and resources they need to help themselves. They should be involved in the decisions about their needs and how the resources should be disbursed as well as community-based monitoring. To ensure that Afghans have the tools and resources they need, it is imperative that Canada increase its financial commitment to at least $100 million for 2022.

In addition to supporting the public sector, we need to alleviate the pressure on the private sector. Afghanistan needs a viable economy, because humanitarian assistance will never be sufficient or sustainable. A collapsing economy and extreme poverty will lead to another migration crisis as well as provide an opportunity for groups such as Daesh or ISIS-K to recruit people.

At-risk Afghans, particularly women, children and minorities, are in dire need of protection. Canada should remove the caps on the number of Afghan refugees that sponsorship agreement holders can sponsor, similar to what was done with the Syrian initiative.

Last, in parallel to these other efforts, there’s a need for continued political pressure on the Taliban to ensure there’s an inclusive and representative government that respects human rights and allows the people to define what they want for the future of Afghanistan.

Thank you again for the opportunity. I welcome any questions.

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you very much. I appreciate your staying almost within the time limit.

Now, from the Canada Afghanistan Business Council, I welcome Aziz Amiri.

Please go ahead with your opening remarks for five minutes.

Madam Clerk, do we have the Canada Afghanistan Business Council?

6:40 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Miriam Burke

I believe they're still connecting. Could you go to the next witness, please?

6:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Okay. Thank you kindly.

Canadian Red Cross, please go ahead.

Between the two of you, you have five minutes for your opening remarks.

6:40 p.m.

Amy Avis General Counsel, Canadian Red Cross

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the invitation to address the distinguished members of the committee today. We welcome your attention to this critical humanitarian issue.

My name is Amy Avis. I'm the general counsel for the Canadian Red Cross. I'm joined today by my colleague Erica See, senior legal adviser.

The Canadian Red Cross is deeply concerned about the ongoing crisis in Afghanistan and the continued barriers to the provision of neutral, impartial and independent humanitarian assistance.

As has been well discussed in this forum, and as was previously highlighted to the committee by the ICRC, the situation in Afghanistan is extremely dire. Afghanistan is currently in the midst of collapse, with communities facing a breakdown of health services and widespread hunger. Acute food shortages fuelled by serious draught, lack of cash, internal displacement and the COVID-19 pandemic have converged on the people in Afghanistan, with some 18 million Afghans in urgent need of humanitarian assistance.

While we recognize and echo the need to take measures to prevent and respond to terrorist activities and other fund diversions, it's also imperative that neutral, impartial and independent humanitarian assistance not be impeded.

The Canadian Red Cross's knowledge and understanding of the complex context and operating environment have been developed with over a decade of work in Afghanistan, in partnership with the Afghan Red Crescent Society. in providing emergency response and health services to vulnerable populations.

Due to the barriers in aid, the Canadian Red Cross operations in Afghanistan are substantially on hold, and we've had to cease all operations. This includes the humanitarian operation for people in emergencies, the HOPE program, which provides critical primary health care services, such as child health, immunization and childbirth and postnatal care, to name just a few. These services are provided across the country through mobile health teams to some of the more remote and difficult areas to access .

The Canadian Red Cross and the Afghan Red Crescent Society are both part of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent movement, comprised of 192 national societies, the ICRC and the IFRC.

Although we're certainly aware that it is not the Government of Canada's intention, it's our understanding that the current legal framework, inclusive of sanctions and anti-terrorism legislation and other regulations, can pose an obstacle to providing humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan. We recognize that solutions can come in a number of forms, so we'll focus our testimony on the principles of what successful solutions can include.

Our recommendations are as follows.

Mindful of the UN Security Council Resolution 2615 in 2021, issue clarification on the scope and focus of the sanctions and expressly state that humanitarian activities or financial transactions in support of these activities would not be a violation of Canadian law, like the U.S. and Australia have done. Action is needed to give force of law in Canada to institute its intent for the resolutions.

Remove further barriers within the sanctions regime. It could also include an express carve-out and that the regimes do not apply to humanitarian aid. This makes the solution applicable beyond Afghanistan.

Provide clarity to the humanitarian sector on permissible action within the current anti-terrorism legislation to combat the chilling effect on non-governmental organizations of the counterterrorism regime.

Various models for actioning this have been discussed at the committee and beyond, such as an MOU or a pre-budget submission. Putting form aside, a successful solution would include direction on permissibility. If it is determined to be appropriate and required, we would finally put forward to undertake a longer-term update of the Criminal Code to expressly and explicitly recognize the carve-outs for providing life-saving activities of neutral and impartial humanitarian assistance.

The complexity of the current situation in Afghanistan presents immense challenges to the Government of Canada and to humanitarian organizations wishing to resume activities to provide life-saving aid. It's our belief that these recommendations could address urgent needs in Afghanistan and set a solid foundation for continued humanitarian action.

Mr. Chair, thank you very much. We look forward to any questions the committee may have.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you very much, Ms. Avis. I appreciate that you kept very well within the time frame.

It's my understanding that we do not have Mr. Aziz Amiri from the Canada Afghanistan Business Council yet.

6:45 p.m.

Aziz Amiri President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council

I'm here.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

It's great to have you here.

6:45 p.m.

President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council

Aziz Amiri

Thank you very much.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Without any further ado, you have five minutes. Please start your watch and stay within the time frame for your opening remarks. We would appreciate that.

6:45 p.m.

President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council

Aziz Amiri

No problem. You have just said the time, so I will not miss it.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I truly appreciate the opportunity to share my thoughts here.

I would like to bring everyone's attention to a few points.

The first one is that we would like to see in the community that the number of newcomers to increase from 40,000 to 100,000, at least.

During the Vietnam War, we received 20,000 Vietnamese from [Technical difficulty—Editor] but now we have the capacity to receive more people.

The second one—

6:45 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

6:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Hold on, Mr. Amiri. It seems we are not getting you very clearly. Please turn your picture off and see if that works better, because your Internet connection is not as good.

6:45 p.m.

President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council

6:50 p.m.

Bloc

Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC

Mr. Chair, I'd like to speak to the clerk. I'm not sure whether he's allowed to keep his camera off. We must be careful about that.

I think that the camera must be on. Is that right, Madam Clerk?

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Madam Clerk, go ahead.

6:50 p.m.

The Clerk

The camera must be turned on during the voting process. However, I think that the technicians are working on the issue.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

I would love to see his picture, Monsieur Brunelle-Duceppe, but I would like to see it crisp and clear. He's a witness, so he's not voting, as the clerk said.

Do you want to say a few things, Mr. Amiri, to see if the interpretation comes through clearly?

6:50 p.m.

President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council

Aziz Amiri

Yes. Maybe I will start by saying thank you very much for the opportunity I have received today.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Mr. Amiri, it's not coming up.

Could you please try it without the picture? We'll see if we can hear you clearly.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Amiri.

6:50 p.m.

President, Canada Afghanistan Business Council

Aziz Amiri

I'm grateful to have the opportunity to present a few points from the Business Council's point of view and that of the community of Afghan Canadians in Canada. I would like to discuss and present ideas—

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Thank you.

Madam Clerk, could you see if the interpreters are okay with it?

6:50 p.m.

The Clerk

Yes, Mr. Chair. They seem to be okay.

6:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sukh Dhaliwal

Good.

Do I have the members' consent to have Mr. Amiri speak without the picture?

Thank you.

Mr. Amiri, I'm going to restart, because that was only 30 seconds or so. We can reset.

We would really appreciate it if you would start again, please.