Afghanistan Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Reid Sirrs]

If I understand the question properly, the ramifications were a loss in physical presence in the country. We are no longer able to physically process people for the immigration program. As a result, we did send people back in as long as we could, but the pressure on the airport, which was the only point of egress for all of us to get out, was so high. Canada wasn't the only country, of course. We had many other NATO member states as well as just civilians themselves trying to get out on commercial flights as long as they could. The pressure was so high that we couldn't sustain any more volume to go through. We were given time slots to get out and worked through this air bridge that I mentioned in my remarks. Canada only had so many time slots to get planes in, load them and get people out.

The really biggest ramification is our inability to continue processing. It's now much more complicated to get people processed through the system and on their way to Canada.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you, Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

We will go to Madam Kwan for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for your presentations and, of course, for your work.

I would like to go first to the ambassador, if I may, and follow up the line about evacuation, or even immigration measures to be made available to Afghans. We have heard from other witnesses, including retired majors, who indicated that there would be opportunities, for example, to go to a third country to provide assistance and help people get to safety.

Do you have any information, or can you tell us about what you saw on the ground while you were there, as to how other countries were able to do some of that work? We understand that the United States and some other countries were able to continue that work. Is that something Canada can learn from those other countries, to try to get more Afghans safely through to third countries and then come to Canada?

[Reid Sirrs]

Thank you, Honourable Member Kwan. It's an excellent question that is hard to answer, because while we're at the coal face, we're not able to see so much of what people are doing in other countries in getting people to third countries to process.

I do know that the complication for us was making sure that we had people properly screened to get on the flights to come to Canada. I think, moving forward, what we will have to look at are policies and regulations for how to process people more effectively and more efficiently. At the time, I think we did a very good job given the constraints we were facing.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

What about going forward, and not just looking back, and to say, what about now? People still need to get to safety. The government's immigration measures allow for people to access those immigration measures only if they are in a third country. Many Afghans are not in a third country, so what can Canada do to facilitate that process and what can we learn from other countries that have done that?

Right now the government has announced, for example, that for Ukraine they are setting up biometric centres in neighbouring countries. Can we not do the same?

[Reid Sirrs]

I'm going to have to defer that to the immigration authorities who are the experts on that, because certainly we have seen how complicated it can be to get people through the system. We want to make sure that we get the right people through the system.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Let me go to Mr. Shariff from the Aga Khan Foundation. I think Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe was just asking you a question about ensuring that NGOs on the ground would be able to provide humanitarian assistance without having to worry about prosecution from the Canadian government.

[Technical difficulty--Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

We will suspend for a few minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

I will call the meeting back to order.

Madam Kwan, please restart your question.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

I'll follow up that question. With regard to ensuring that NGOs on the ground would not feel concerned that they might be prosecuted by the Canadian government with the anti-terrorism laws, you talked about having a durable measure, for sure. In the short term, other countries have provided an exemption or entered into a contractual agreement where they would be exempted from the anti-terrorism measures.

Is that a possible option at this time, given the urgency of the situation?

[Khalil Shariff]

Mr. Chairman and Ms. Kwan, thank you very much for that question.

Obviously we would welcome such an exemption if it were possible within the Canadian legal framework. I think you're right to say that virtually all our like-minded partners have found a way to carve out the humanitarian and development activities we're talking about. My sense is that we have to work expeditiously to create whatever the mechanism is that will work in accordance with the Canadian legal framework.

I don't think there's a policy issue here. All the other like-minded partners have done this. It's a matter of making sure there's a Canadian solution to this problem.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Absolutely. I think that if the Canadian government wanted to do it, we can certainly do it. Right now, time is of the essence.

I want to ask another question of all the witnesses. It's been brought to my attention that the minister has the authority to create public policies to enable the government to assist at-risk Afghan refugees at his discretion—with his own authority.

In consideration of the vulnerable populations and to protect the integrity of the process, the ministry says that we have not been releasing that information to the public. I wonder if any of the witnesses are aware of this situation where the minister has the authority to exercise special decision-making to help at-risk populations and we don't know what that policy is.

Are you hearing that on the ground?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Who are you addressing the question to, Ms. Kwan?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I'd like to ask Mr. Shariff that question first and then we'll go to the other witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Go ahead, Mr. Shariff, then Dr. Ernst and then Ambassador Sirrs.

[Khalil Shariff]

Mr. Chairman, this is not something I'm current with, so I can't answer the question. Thanks.

[Dr. Kelly Ernst]

I am aware that the public policies have been used to get internally displaced people to Canada. In fact, I have received a number of refugees based on public policies being administered.

[Reid Sirrs]

I'm in the same situation as Mr. Shariff. I'm not up to date on that particular aspect of a public policy for the minister.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much. That's interesting.

I just wonder whether or not you're experiencing anything on the ground. That statement actually came from the ministry, so we know for a fact that is what's happening. Of course, if we don't know what the public policy is, how it is being applied by the minister and for whom, how would people know at what point they can actually ask for that special consideration?

I'm going to leave that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Your time is up, but you can have 30 seconds.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My last question is one I also asked the last panel. The minister has made an announcement for Ukraine that there would be special immigration measures, including sponsorship of extended family members for Ukraine.

Should the minister be applying the same measure for Afghanistan? Do you have an opinion on that?

I would like just a quick answer from all the witnesses.

[Khalil Shariff]

I'll just say, Mr. Chairman, that the situation is a crisis situation. I think we should mount whatever response we can muster both in the country and then to support those who need to leave.

[Dr. Kelly Ernst]

Absolutely. We should do it not only within Afghanistan, but in transit countries and here as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Ambassador Sirrs, please wrap up. Thank you.