Afghanistan Committee on April 4th, 2022

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you. I don't mean to be rude. I have limited time. I don't need to hear the same answer over again. I want to move to another area, then.

We just heard from the ADM that it's up to the Minister of Immigration to make the decision about evacuation flights in Pakistan, including determining whether or not to waive documentation requirements. When that was put to the minister, he then referred it back to other ministries, such as foreign affairs and others.

We have a situation where everybody is saying it's someone else's responsibility. A retired major, as a witness, said that someone has to take the lead to get Afghans safely to Canada.

Mr. Thoppil, could you advise if you have an opinion on who should be taking the lead? Is it immigration?

[Paul Thoppil]

IRCC has the mandate in terms of responsibilities for immigration into our country.

Thank you.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Well then, I will ask [Technical difficulty—Editor].

On the next one, I'd like to ask this question. Witnesses last week talked about needing to take a feminist approach and in particular for Canada to reach out to and work together with France, Germany and Sweden to step in where feminist foreign policy is required in this global situation.

Mr. Thoppil, is the ministry doing any work in reaching out to these other countries to take the lead and play a leadership role in taking a feminist approach to addressing the crisis in Afghanistan?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Thoppil, you have 10 seconds.

[Paul Thoppil]

We are reaching out to like-minded countries. We have a senior official for Afghanistan based in Doha who works with like-minded countries, particularly those that share our policy of a feminist foreign policy in terms of condemning the Taliban for the actions they are taking with regard to the infringement of women's and girls' rights, and we continue to engage in a collective vis-à-vis the Taliban to inform them to stop these actions—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt, Mr. Thoppil. Time is up.

I'm going to go to Mr. Hallan and Madam Zahid.

You both will have four minutes each in this round.

Mr. Hallan, go ahead, please, for four minutes.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Salewicz, according to Ms. Loten, one of your key stakeholders is IRCC. Was there any coordination between your unit and IRCC prior to August 2021?

[Stephen Salewicz]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry to interrupt. I think there's a misunderstanding. IRCC is my partner. I work with them in terms of the UNHCR mandate, but we don't share information on countries' specific situations like this.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Okay, Mr. Salewicz, what kind of coordination did your unit have in Afghanistan prior to August 2021? Was there any relief going there for the refugee crisis?

[Stephen Salewicz]

Indeed, we've been active in Afghanistan for decades, responding to the humanitarian needs. We were responding prior to the Taliban takeover and subsequently scaled up our response.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Salewicz, can you please table what kinds of supports were given before August 2021 by month to Afghanistan?

[Stephen Salewicz]

I can send you that, indeed.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

You could table that to this committee, please.

[Stephen Salewicz]

I have it by year, but I don't have it by month.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Can you break it down by month, please, prior to August 2021 and for afterwards up until now?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Hallan, please go through the Chair and respectfully, because the officials are here. I'm not that particular, but I appreciate the respect.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Respectfully, Mr. Chair, through you, can Mr. Salewicz please table month to month the documents about supports to Afghanistan through his unit for, let's say, January 2021 up until February 2022?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Thank you.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

Mr. Chair, through you to Ms. Loten, you mentioned that your department was tracking ISIS and al Qaeda, but was anything being done to track Taliban prior to August 2021?

[Jennifer Loten]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, we tried to maintain vigilance of a range of terrorist and violent extremist organizations worldwide, not just in Central Asia and the Middle East but also in North America, Europe and other parts of the world.

[Jasraj Singh Hallan, Conservative, Calgary Forest Lawn, AB]

But, again, just the Taliban itself because you did not mention.... Through you, Mr. Chair, Ms. Loten did not mention the Taliban in her response when I asked previously.

Was Ms. Loten tracking the Taliban as well, her department, and if so, was there more concern or less concern about the Taliban compared to al Qaeda and ISIS?

[Jennifer Loten]

It's an interesting question, and I am going to answer it to the best of my ability. As we track the Taliban, from my perspective and from my position, we're looking at it from a policy perspective, and we're engaging across a range of multilateral platforms with Five Eyes partners and others in ways to engage, control and protect against the threat that terrorism represents worldwide.

There are also partners that work from an intelligence perspective that gather the kind of information that I think you're seeking.

The other part of my unit looks at the drug trade, for example, and we did spend a tremendous amount of time looking at the finances behind the Taliban, the opioids trade and how the organization functions and works.

The other thing we look at is the relationship between the Taliban, al Qaeda, ISIS-K and other organizations. We've now moved to an environment where we're looking at Daesh and ISIS and how they're reaching into different parts of Africa and developing networks there. Now we're looking at them as an organization that isn't territorially focused but is operating as a broad international network, and it's a very different ball game.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Mr. Hallan, your time is up.

Now I will go to Madame Zahid for four minutes.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thanks to the officials for all the work they do.

My first question is with regard to the humanitarian aid, which is flowing out of the money announced for Afghanistan. Is all the money directed toward individuals living in Afghanistan, or is any money being directed to humanitarian aid for people who are in a third country?

Many Afghans have fled to Pakistan, Tajikistan or Qatar. Countries such as Pakistan are not in a situation to make sure that the basic necessities of life are available. Is there any effort being made to make sure that humanitarian aid gets to those people?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sukh Dhaliwal]

Honourable member, is there a particular person who you want—