Evidence of meeting #18 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was detainees.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
That's right. We worked out a system to do informal notifications as well as formal.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I want to thank you on behalf of everybody, I think, Canadians across the country, for the tremendous work everybody did do under incredibly difficult circumstances.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Swords, you mentioned there had been meetings with the Red Cross here in September and you mentioned that Minister MacKay and Minister O'Connor were present. Were you present at any meetings with the Red Cross in Kandahar in June?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
June of...?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No, in June 2006 I was our ambassador to the Netherlands.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Right.
I wanted to ask you that, because Mr. Colvin had been writing that there had been concerns from the Red Cross and he was very specific that their concerns were warnings from them about possible torture of detainees being transferred. Were you aware of that from the Red Cross, the concerns they had brought forward?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
No, I wasn't. The reason I'm aware of the June message is that when Dr. Kellenberger was coming I was briefed and told there had been some issues in May 2006, but we'd had meetings to try to resolve that, and we had.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Did it surprise you that there were a couple of meetings in Kandahar where the Red Cross had brought forward concerns, not only about possible torture of transferred detainees, but the possible torture of detainees who were transferred by Canadian Forces soldiers?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
It would surprise me greatly if the Red Cross informed us of detainees who had been mistreated in any way--
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
--because they would inform the Afghan government. That is their policy.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
Right, so if they had informed us about that, as Mr. Colvin has suggested, it would have to be quite extraordinary circumstances, would you agree?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think that's just speculation. I'm really familiar with the Red Cross, and they are absolutely adamant that they--
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
So 100% that they would not have provided us with warnings about possible torture of detainees transferred, or concerns about that?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I'm 100% certain they wouldn't pass on information with respect to a Canadian-transferred detainee per se.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The kind of information that the Red Cross usually deals with, as it concerns us, relates to the process of the transfer. They're concerned about that and they want to make sure--
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
But on the other end is where they end up, and I think they had concerns. We're hearing that meetings were held, and Mr. Colvin was making it known that there were concerns about the handover of the prisoners taken by Canadian Forces, and that they had underlined that concern. But you're saying that you had no idea of these concerns from the Red Cross about detainees being tortured in general, and about Canadian-transferred detainees specifically?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
The concerns from the Red Cross at that time were with respect to the timing of the notification. We were doing it formally through Ottawa and Geneva, and we dealt with that.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Paul Dewar NDP Ottawa Centre, ON
But at the time, they were also concerned about the fact of what happens to those detainees when they've been handed over into jails. We've had the Red Cross and we've had the Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission, which, we have established through reports, were concerned about torture. We've had the State Department. Certainly people would have known at the time. If all these institutions had concerns and, in the meetings that were held with the Red Cross, they were expressing those concerns, would we not have flagged that and said, look, we need to do something about the handover of detainees because these institutions--as mentioned earlier in your testimony--are saying torture is a problem, generally speaking?
If that was the case, was no one other than Mr. Colvin underlining that concern?
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
I think the general concerns that were being raised in human rights reports were known, but they were general, not specific.
5:15 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development
They weren't specific.
