Afghanistan Committee on March 26th, 2009

[David Mulroney]

The last visit I made was my tenth in two years. At the start, we had a very small civilian presence in Kandahar. One of the observations of the Manley panel was that we didn't have enough eyes on or enough ownership of our development and governance work; it was delivered out of Kabul or elsewhere, and we weren't getting the results we needed.

What I see now is that young foreign service officers and CIDA officers are out at the forward bases working with captains, setting up local councils and shuras, and really working creatively together. It's quite inspiring to see. I see Correctional Service officers and RCMP and DFAIT officers in Afghan prisons monitoring, training, and supervising infrastructure improvements.

I see a lot of work. For example, I mentioned the Dahla Dam. A key to success on the Dahla Dam will be not just doing our infrastructure improvements by 2011, but leaving some Afghan capacity behind to keep managing that. So I see civilians out working with the local communities that are responsible for water management in their particular regions and talking about what the dam will do and how we expect them to step up.

There has been a real change. It's partly the number. It's also that we're sending more senior civilians out there. We now have a civilian who is the counterpart to the brigadier general, known as the RoCK, and the current one is Ken Lewis. We have a senior civilian at the Provincial Reconstruction Team who is a counterpart to the colonel, and then we have senior people for each of the core departments. They're making a difference.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

The other thing is that the impression that seems to be left with the Canadian public is that when we talk about the balance of the mission, people keep talking about ten-to-one military-civilian funding and so on, which is very, very misleading. Can you comment on what the military engineer teams at the PRT are doing?

[David Mulroney]

A lot of what ultimately gets done just at the very grassroots level, whether it's repairing bridges or irrigation works or dams, is done not necessarily by Canadian military engineers, but through their expertise and with their support. What we're seeing are combined teams of people from CIDA, CF engineers, and local Afghan contractors who are out there doing the work right out where it counts. It's a very productive and very effective partnership.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

That was exactly seven minutes. Thanks.

Mr. Dewar.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Mulroney, for your presentation on the work that you're engaged in.

I want to start off with some comments that you made to Mr. Obhrai on where Canada is going.

One of the issues we're focusing on is reconciliation. You didn't mention it, but to be fair to you, it's in the reports. In order for peace and reconciliation efforts to actually succeed in stemming the violence, which you acknowledged is increasing, I believe the military initiatives have to be aligned with a political strategy and a diplomatic initiative. Can you help us here? There's going to be a American troop surge of 17,000. There'll admittedly be more violence. I don't think it's controversial; it's a fact that has been laid out. If that is happening, I think we also need to have a clear political strategy or diplomatic strategy. What concrete recommendations and initiatives will Canada offer at the conference next Tuesday?

I was going to ask for your comments on Mr. Alexander being replaced by Mr. Galbraith, noting that Mr. Galbraith is also someone who is American in terms of his viewpoint. You have certainly worked with Mr. Holbrooke. I'm concerned about where the Canadian influence and confluence are, at a time when Canadians want to see us push diplomatically. They want a diplomatic surge to be something that Canadians do. We've seen the Americans talk about a diplomatic surge. That's what Canada does. It's our history. We want to see that happen.

I guess what I'm asking you is this. Where's our diplomatic surge? Where's our diplomatic plan? What are we going to be offering on Tuesday?

[David Mulroney]

Thanks, Mr. Dewar.

First, on UN personnel, one of the reasons Canada tends to have a lot of people in senior jobs at the UN is because they act as UN officials and they don't have a Canadian agenda. It's why Chris Alexander's work was recognized. We don't think of Kai Eide as a Norwegian, although he is a Norwegian and a very distinguished one; we think of him as a UN official. We will expect Mr. Galbraith to act on behalf of the UN. That's a fundamental objective.

Secondly, we've been working very closely with all of our partners, including the U.S., to ensure that we have a sensible and practical plan for southern Afghanistan. At the end of the day, our objective is the same as the U.S. objective, and it's certainly the Afghan objective. The objective is success. The Americans realized going in that there were a lot of things they were going to have to learn in the south. I spent a lot of time in Washington, Kabul, and Kandahar talking to them. I can give you a specific example.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'm sorry, but my time is short.

Are we offering anything on Tuesday in terms of a diplomatic plan that you're aware of?

[David Mulroney]

We already have a plan for the development of Kandahar that was carefully worked out with Afghan officials and Canadian Forces.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It's the reconciliation process that we prepared.

[David Mulroney]

No, there's an action plan for the development of governance in Kandahar that the Americans have already accepted. It will continue to be the plan for development.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

But beyond that, in terms of the region and a diplomatic plan to push for what many people agree is the solution, there will be regional talks and regional players. Is Canada going to be involved in that, as far as you know?

[David Mulroney]

Canada will definitely be involved, as will Minister Cannon,

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Are we looking to push for that on Tuesday?

[David Mulroney]

Canada has for some time advocated the need for a regional solution. We've recognized that all along. I can tell you that our diplomats, like John McNee in New York, are leading in the UN on the American friends of Afghanistan group.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

We're looking forward to something on Tuesday that will show that Canada is offering something in terms of a diplomatic plan and will push for what I'll call a diplomatic surge, but you can call it something else. Will we see Canada being involved in that part of the discussions?

[David Mulroney]

You will see Canada, in the person of Minister Cannon, continuing to advocate for a sound and comprehensive regional strategy that contributes to peace in Afghanistan and peace in the region.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

If I may, some have called for an eminent persons initiative through the UN. Lakhdar Brahimi is a name that has been suggested. I can throw in another name, a Canadian, Mokhtar Lamani, who was with Mr. Brahimi in 1998 when he was reporting on the ground in Afghanistan. They are two very eminent people.

Some say it's a way in which to go, including people who are specialists in the field from the Norman Paterson School here in Ottawa. Canada could get behind that kind of initiative, which would actually open up regional talks with countries such as Iran and others. It seems to me that it would be something to consider. Have you heard anything along those lines? Would it be something to follow within our framework?

[David Mulroney]

I saw Mr. Hampson's article not so long ago. I think the real challenge is, as I say, coherence. We have to reinforce the actors who are there. For Canada the eminent person is Kai Eide, who is the Secretary General's special representative. We need to do, as we have done, everything we can to support him in his efforts to bring coherence to development and diplomacy in Afghanistan. That is Canada's long-standing position, and Canada, in the person of Mr. Cannon, will continue to advocate for that next week in the Hague.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I would simply suggest that we should look towards that eminent persons group and have a Canadian component to it. It's not that they would bring a Canadian lens, but that there would be a Canadian contribution, and we have the people to do that, as you know.

I think most Canadians are looking for the next steps from Canada diplomatically, notwithstanding all the good work that was done. I went with the committee last spring and we saw some of the good work that's being done. What they're looking for is getting out of the frame we're in, which most would agree isn't working well on the ground for Afghans and certainly for Canadians, and we know the story there. I hope we push that. We're having a take-note debate tonight in the House of Commons on what's going to happen next. I would hope that those other ideas are looked at, and we'll certainly be pushing those ideas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

You're just about out of time. There are 20 seconds.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I'll leave it at that. I won't push it.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Have you any response, Mr. Mulroney?

[David Mulroney]

I think one of the reasons Mr. Cannon is so supportive of what's happening in the Hague next week is that it is a very inclusive meeting and it will bring in some new actors. So Canada wants to be sure there is international burden sharing and that everybody who can play a part in achieving a peaceful solution in Afghanistan plays a part.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you very much.

That ends the opening round. We'll go to a five-minute round. We start with the government and then we'll go to the official opposition.

Mr. MacKenzie.

[Dave MacKenzie, Conservative, Oxford, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If there's any time left, I will share it with Mr. Hawn.

Thank you, Mr. Mulroney, for being here today. Just so everyone understands, we're operating under a motion passed by the Parliament of Canada and we are on that path--if that's a fair assessment--and the guidelines are within that motion that was passed in the House. I'm wondering if you would expand a little bit on that.

My other concern is that when we talk about what's going on in Afghanistan, so frequently we talk about the military and some of the other things that we're doing there, and we sometimes miss the fact that we have a number of police officials and prison officials there. And I believe I recently saw where we're going to enhance that and also perhaps pay for some of the Afghani police officials. I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit about both of those things that I've asked there and explain it so that Canadians would understand that we are taking a broad approach to what we are doing there.