Afghanistan Committee on May 14th, 2009

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

I think it's fair to say they are, at the national level. I don't know so much that they're as successful in Kandahar province. Whilst I was there, remembering that my target audience in Kandahar province consisted of Khandaharis and not so much Canada, I was the commander on the ground focused on those people. I think we were relatively successful there.

But there are occasions when rumours and whatnot circulate, and you need to get an Afghan official on all the regular media outlets, or even a local shura, to set the record straight.

Really, you just have to understand that and pursue it vigorously. Although we weren't perfect, I thought we had a pretty good information operation cell.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Bachand.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to hear about military justice. We read that, in Afghanistan—and Kandahar is no exception—the civil justice system is very difficult. If the military justice system is distinct from the civil justice system, does the Afghan National Army have a specific military justice system? That is my first question.

My second question has to do with the state of the Afghan National Army as an institution. We know that they have a minister of defence, Mr. Wardak, but do they also have a chief of staff?

General Thompson, you said that the situation is incredibly complicated given the number of countries working together. Does the minister of defence or the prime minister have to approve operations on the ground? From an operations standpoint, when you plan an operation, does it stay in the army's hands, or, in the case of a large-scale operation, does the minister of defence or the prime minister have to give their approval?

What is the state of the Afghan National Army as an institution?

[BGen Alan Howard]

I spent a year with all those officials—the Afghan Minister of Defence, Minister Wardak, and their equivalent of the Chief of Defence Staff, General Bismullah Khan—and helped them create a system of governance over the top of their army so that when the President heard from the people, and military operations needed to occur, there would be a flow-down of orders. The President would talk to the Minister of Defence and certain military actions would occur.

There was certainly a lot of autonomy for the corps commanders—for example, down in General Thompson's area—to conduct military operations to achieve governmental aims.

During the period of November to March, the Afghan government issued direction on military operations that were to be achieved during that period. One of them was the registering of voters. A huge military operation had occurred throughout the country. The plans came and were done jointly with ISAF. But on the Afghan National Army side, the minister reviewed the plans, and then I accompanied General Bismullah Khan, and we went to every corps to understand what their plan was and what the resources would be that were required.

So of systems development, if I can use that term, the operational oversight from Kabul is a work-in-progress. We've created an operations centre and there are senior Afghans who are involved. The Afghans in Kandahar are not just left to their own devices.

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

By way of civilian control of the military, what's encouraging is that every week in Kandahar province—I think it's the case in most other provinces as well—there is a provincial security meeting, chaired by the governor, with the army, the police, the NDS, and the border police. All the security players are present, and of course ISAF. It's at that meeting where it's decided what the priorities will be for that week in terms of military or police operations. And the executive in that case comes from the governor, which is an interesting way of doing things.

General Howard is absolutely right that voter registration is a classic example of a large-scale operation that came from Kabul and trickled its way down to those of us in the field.

[Claude Bachand, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Can you talk briefly about military justice? Is there such a system?

[BGen Alan Howard]

Yes, there is a judge advocate general division within the Afghan National Army headquarters. There is a separate military justice system, but it is very much a work-in-progress. As I related earlier, there is a legal framework within the Afghan army that has a JAG--he's a brigadier-general--and at various units and brigades there are legal officers.

Our challenge is to get them up to a level of education where they can apply legal standing, but that is going to be a work-in-progress. It is important to the Afghan army and it is a pillar of work that's going to take us a while to square away.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Thank you.

Mr. Rae.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

I will just follow on a little from my question the last time, about where we are and where we could be after 2011. How do you envisage our development work and the relationship between the security that is provided by NATO and our PRT? Is it conceivable that a political role or a development role could continue in Kandahar, in a PRT, without the Canadian army necessarily providing the security, but that security could be provided by others?

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

Hypothetically, yes, absolutely. You can continue with the development effort and...but let's be clear: there has to be a security arm in the PRT.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

No, no, I understand that. I accept that as a given.

Again, some of the pressure that one gets a sense of, from various statements being made by senior military officials in Canada, is that one of the reasons why 2011 is not just a political imperative...it's also a military imperative for our troops, that we are overextended.

Is that a fair comment, or am I overstating the case?

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

I'm not placed to answer that question. It's better to go to General Leslie, the commander of the army, or even General Natynczyk, the Chief of Defence Staff. I was merrily ensconced in this problem overseas and, happily, completely oblivious to what's been happening to the institution back here.

Unfortunately, come July 3, that will no longer be the case.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Are you going back?

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

No, I'm going to army headquarters. I'm going to be up to my eyeballs in this and probably answering the same question from you, sir, next fall.

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

If I'm still here, yes, absolutely.

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

Well, I can't comment on that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Are you good, Mr. Rae?

[Bob Rae, Liberal, Toronto Centre, ON]

Yes.

[Bryon Wilfert, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Can I ask, through you, Mr. Chairman, about the upcoming elections in August?

What potential security concerns do you see and what is the role of the Canadian Forces? In terms of both the army and the Afghan police, are they going to be prepared for any eventuality?

[BGen Dennis William Thompson]

Again, that's a great question for the current commander. However, I'm not completely ignorant of the situation. As General Howard pointed out, we conducted voter registration just as I was leaving theatre. So it was completed just as I was leaving.

Voter registration--the mechanism, the plan, the layout, all the rest of that--is very similar to actually conducting an election. Voter registration lasted for 30 days, a month, without any major security happenings. I'm sorry I don't have the number, but it's somewhere in the vicinity of 300,000 people who were registered in a population of a million, only half of whom would be of legal age. I don't know what the final number is. You could probably get it fairly easily.

My point is that when the election occurs, if we could secure these voter registration sites for 30 days, we can certainly secure an election for a single day. The insurgents--I'm not laying the gauntlet down here--are not the sort of organization that has targeted significant dates. I don't know why that is, but they haven't gone after Independence Day or they haven't launched major attacks that coincide with particular anniversaries.

I think, from the 10,000-kilometre view right now, the election can be held in full security with the forces that are available on the ground, remembering again that of course people will surge into the field on actual election day. There's definitely a view from the capital because there is lots of planning vis-à-vis that.

[BGen Alan Howard]

The voter registration itself was a huge success, with cooperation between the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Defence. For me, from an Afghan perspective, what was different between this voter registration and the first one a few years back was that it was Afghans doing the security. We were in behind, ready to help. When an Afghan came to register--they didn't all need to register, it was only those who hadn't registered before--they saw Afghan security forces around. They would have seen a bit of NATO, but the last one would have been completely coalition troops. So I think they're well poised here for the elections.

They've already done it for voter registration. For them, this will be an easier task, as General Thompson has mentioned, a one-day task to help with the elections. That's a measure, because that was not possible a couple of years back, I would say.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rick Casson]

Mr. Dewar, you get the last word.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I have two quick ones, hopefully, on the role of the private security companies, because our relation with them isn't clear to me, and the Afghan army in terms of training. There's hiring that goes on, but who does it? Who are they responsible to, and what's their involvement in training the Afghan army?