Evidence of meeting #15 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was afghanistan.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Walter Natynczyk  Chief of the Defence Staff, Department of National Defence

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS

That's good sharing. Thank you.

Ditto on all the thanks and all that sort of stuff that was mentioned.

This may go to either minister. It is on the capacity-building that's been talked about so much, both in terms of the military training on the ground, obviously, and in the infrastructure and so on.

At what level are we in terms of being considered successful in capacity-building, and when will we reach a point at which, as the public often says, the Afghans will be ready to take over? I know it's a quick question, but I'd like to hear an answer.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

I think I'll defer this to General Natynczyk, as it really is a military measure of capacity.

What I can tell you is that as General Natynczyk mentioned, the Kandaks have demonstrated increasing proficiency in both the planning and the execution. In Kandahar in particular, because of the high level of contact, as you can expect, the capability is coming about out of necessity. We are seeing the numbers and the professionalism increase.

It is also the way in which Canadians train. I think Mr. Rae put his finger on it earlier in his opening remarks. The type of respect, decency, understanding, and cultural awareness that Canadians have is on full display in the manner in which both the military and the police train Afghans--

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

We'll have to move on--

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

--and that is noticed. I believe it accelerates the ability that we have to impart the skills and the tools that Afghans need to take over this important security duty.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Monsieur Dorion from the Bloc. Go ahead, sir.

October 27th, 2010 / 5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Jean Dorion Bloc Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, QC

Ministers and general, your appearance began with extremely optimistic presentations.

However, my colleague then brought out a study done by a serious American organization that completely contradicts that view. The organization reveals that, from one year to the next and from one month to the next, there are increasing numbers of attacks, increasing losses, and above all, more and more territories controlled by the Taliban. These observations are similar to those by serious observers, such as journalist Michèle Ouimet from La Presse, who, for a number of years, has had in-depth knowledge of the country.

Is it possible that we were misled in recent years, that we are seeing something similar to what occurred when the American troops withdrew from Vietnam between 1973 and 1975, which led to the collapse a few short weeks later of the regime in Saigon that the troops had left behind?

If that were true, that would perhaps explain President Karzaï's attempts to have a rapprochement with the Taliban. Perhaps he expects they will triumph and is trying to save what he can. That would mean that all our efforts, all our sacrifices, all the lives sacrificed for the past number of years would have been in vain.

Are people at the Department of Foreign Affairs and the Department of National Defence looking, at the very least, at this hypothesis as a serious one? And if so, are they trying to see how the damage could be limited to the greatest extent possible?

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

Your hypothesis draws apocalyptic comparisons to the Vietnam conflict of over 50 years ago. I don't know if the Americans--or anyone else, for that matter--are drawing any analogous information.

There have been numerous reports that track both the level of violence and the level of public confidence, as we have done in our own report tracking the indicators of progress in terms of education, immunizing children, and infrastructure investments. Those are the ways in which we are making a real and tangible difference in the day-to-day lives of Afghans. Those are the harbingers of progress, in my view.

It's difficult to quantify hope and optimism for the people of Afghanistan, but anecdotally, as I mentioned earlier, we are seeing increasing evidence of Afghans cooperating with their own security forces in identifying threat and pointing out where the bombs are being planted. The Taliban themselves are being informed upon, if I can use that term, as far as who poses threats to villages and communities that we are sworn to protect, and we are working with the Afghans in that regard.

Reports such as the one you and Mr. Bachand have relied on heavily in your questioning give us a snapshot in time. I think of General Natynczyk's very sage words about the increase in the physical number of soldiers that we now have engaged in southern Afghanistan in places like Panjwai, where we know the Taliban were deeply rooted and embedded in communities. This is, after all, the spiritual homeland of this terrorist group. There's increased contact because the contact has been initiated by more soldiers.

The reference to an increase in violence in France on the beaches of Normandy is analogous. I think those are historical lessons that we can look at. When we attempt to liberate communities and villages and engage in military operations to remove the Taliban from the battlefield, inevitably this will be gauged by groups such as the one you've referred to as an increase in violence, followed by, we hope, an increase in sustained peace and stability.

After these clearance operations have occurred in some villages, we can put forward the very real attempts at building their infrastructure, asking them--as Canadians do, which I think is a uniquely Canadian attitude--“How can we help? What do you need? Do you need a school? Do you need a new facility to treat people who are ill? Do you need water? Do you need electricity? What are the programs that we can bring to you? Do you need seed for crops to replace poppies?”

All these efforts that Canadians have made--

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Okay. Thank you--

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

--happen when we're able to create a condition for success; that is, we bring the violence down. In order to do so, in some cases we go with Afghans in an attempt to--

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you--

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

--enforce the peace. That's exactly what's happening, particularly in Panjwai.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you very much.

You have about one and a half minutes, Mr. Abbott.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Jim Abbott Conservative Kootenay—Columbia, BC

In one and a half minutes, I'd like to mention that in my judgment this committee was originally envisioned by Mr. Manley and the others as being one that could actually assist, rather than one that would act as an inquisition committee, as has happened an awful lot here today. We could actually be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. We could be looking forward instead of backwards.

I'd like to ask the ministers or the general to give the committee, very briefly, a couple of suggestions on what you would be looking for if this committee were doing the other half of its job, which it never has done in the whole time it has been in existence. If we're to do the other half of the job, which is to make suggestions as to where the government and our armed forces could be going from here, could give us some suggestions for witnesses or ideas?

5:25 p.m.

A voice

Fifteen seconds.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Order.

Does anybody want to...? Just give a wrap-up, then.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Peter MacKay Conservative Central Nova, NS

We would welcome any and all advice that you might have for us at the Department of National Defence.

I want to thank this committee for the work that you do, for the personal interest that all of you have taken in travelling to Afghanistan, and most importantly for your very encouraging positive comments about the efforts of all Canadians, both those in uniform and those in a civilian capacity.

I think the committee and the staff here are to be commended. You're all part of the same team. We want to project an accurate picture of what's happening in Afghanistan, but we also want to demonstrate the support that I know is there for the important non-partisan work we're doing on behalf of Canada.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Garry Breitkreuz

Thank you very much.

Minister Cannon, Minister MacKay, and General Natynczyk, we thank you very much for the valuable information you have given to us. Thank you for coming to our committee.

This meeting stands adjourned.