Afghanistan Committee on Nov. 24th, 2010

[Gordon Venner]

No. I think that covers it. Just to link back to the previous question, though, on support for women, I think 27% of the members of the current Parliament are female.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

I'll turn it over to Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all of you for being here today.

There's a lot to cover but very little time in which to do it, so I'm going to wrap some stuff together, if I may.

Knowing that we've been I think quite successful in the combat role to date, while I realize that this is changing, I think any rational person would agree that to stay there and continue the training and the commitment in Afghanistan is critical if we're going to carry on with this transition.

There are a couple of things. I'll first mention the crops versus opium. I want to tie that in with getting to where we have to get to, given all the corruption we've heard about, which is getting off the dependence on the drugs and the vulnerability of incomes and so on. How important is that to tying it in with continuing the training mission so that the Afghan authorities can in fact control this problem and continue to work on things like the human rights issue? That's kind of roundabout. I guess we're still in the very early transition to real and long-term crop sustainability and also to making sure that we deal with those human rights issues. I'm just wondering how that ties in with making sure that we stay there until the mission is finished in terms of training.

[Greta Bossenmaier]

Mr. Chair, there may be a couple of ways to address the issues the member has raised.

We already had a little bit of discussion around this table about the Dahla Dam: will the targets be met and how is it progressing? It may be helpful if we talk a little bit about the impact of the dam. It's more than just the dam; it's really the irrigation system. There are opportunities that the irrigation system is opening up to the Kandahar region in particular, which is often known as the breadbasket of the region. Through the work of CIDA and partners, they've been looking at how to try to help the Afghans now use the new irrigation possibilities in terms of crop development.

Ms. Ducros, you may want to talk a little bit about that.

In terms of the training, the importance of training going forward, and capacity building, I think Admiral Davidson already touched on that, but he may have more points to add.

[Françoise Ducros]

Just on the Dahla Dam, 80% of the people of Kandahar live along the Dahla Dam and the irrigation waterways the Dahla Dam feeds.

We are well on the way to meeting that target. We've de-silted canals. We've worked with local communities in establishing their ownership of the various gateways and waterways in the irrigation systems and in reclaiming that land.

We also have done a lot of training on new farming mechanisms and new crop development on Tarnak Farms, with the University of Guelph and other Canadian and Afghan partners, with a view to returning to pomegranate and other crops. So there is a net gain as to what we do with regard to soil reclamation and harvest reclamation.

I don't know what more to add. It's fairly significant. It is basically reclaiming what used to be, as Ms. Bossenmaier said, the breadbasket not only of Kandahar but of Afghanistan and the region. It could create livelihoods that theoretically would bring people back to traditional farming.

[Gordon Venner]

Maybe I can just add one point. In addition to work being done in terms of substitute crops, there is also work being done in terms of better enforcement with respect to counter-narcotics. We had a really interesting example recently. Pakistani authorities seized 15.8 tons of precursor chemicals that are used in the production of heroin.

The Pakistani officials who made that seizure, which is the largest of its kind, were trained under the United Nations Office of Drugs and Crime with the cooperation of the World Customs Organization. That program was funded by Canada as part of our efforts in the Dubai Process, which works to facilitate better cooperation between the Afghans and the Pakistanis on border issues.

[RAdm Robert Davidson]

If I can, I'll just make another comment on the issue of the connection to training. We have some fairly ambitious targets, but we're meeting them, for the most part, in terms of growing the size of the Afghan national security forces. This comes back to the issue we talked about earlier with respect to violence.

The more we get the troops out into the field and out into the sparsely populated areas where we haven't been before, the more we are going to be able to counter some of the challenges associated with the drug trade and so on. If you look, for example, at Helmand province, which represents about 5% of the population in Afghanistan, and where about one-third of the incidents are currently taking place in terms of violence, this is also the area where a large part of the drugs are being produced. They have the opium fields.

We're trying to get the Afghan national security forces to a total that will exceed 300,000. When you start to get to those levels, you're going to be able to put the police or the army out into those areas. They'll be able to take over behind NATO forces, and they'll be able to deal with issues like the drug trade.

[The Chair, Conservative, Garry Breitkreuz]

Thank you, Admiral.

I'm sorry, but we're going to have to cut it off there. We're out of time.

Mr. Harris, please.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I'll share my time with Mr. Dewar.

Now, we're here to talk about post-2011 civilian-side development or non-military contributions. I note that in 2008-09, Canada spent $227 million on programs in Afghanistan. We understand that the PCO was working on a projection of a $550-million program over the three years following 2011, which from what we were told the other day is now $300 million—$100 million a year for three years— and which seems to be a cutback by about half of what we've been spending up to now, or at least lately, and also a reduction in what was being projected.

Can you tell us what programs are being eliminated as a result of this cutting back to $100 million a year from our relatively current commitment and what was projected up until a week or so ago?

[Françoise Ducros]

I can speak to the humanitarian development side of things, which was a program of about roughly $220 million this year--$633 million over the last three years--and it is estimated to be roughly $100 million in the years coming.

On the programming that we've funded in the last year, about half was to Kandahar province. There's no question that we achieved many results, which I have outlined. We believe that these projects will be sustainable into the future, but we will not be programming directly in Kandahar province. We'll be focusing on continuing to draw from those lessons that we learned throughout Afghanistan and focusing on two areas of concentration where we think we've had a tremendous impact.

The first is education, where we've been the lead donor in many respects in developing approaches, building capacity, and ensuring results. Also, we will continue to work on humanitarian assistance. We are going to continue to develop that programming, and we will do so in consultation with our partners in Canada and working to the national priorities of the Afghan government, which has basically redefined or focused what those priorities should be pursuant to the Kabul conference.

That's not to say that we haven't achieved great ends with the economic development side of things and the other issues, but--

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

That'll do for now.

When we were in Afghanistan last spring, one of the most successful programs described to us by the Minister of Agriculture and confirmed by some of our Canadian civilians in Kabul was the national solidarity program, which was said to enable communities to identify, through elected community development councils, local development priorities that would be delivered based on their priorities. Canada contributed $46 million to that program between 2008 and 2011. It seemed to give an opportunity to let communities have some local governance and some say or control over their future--this development aid coming. Is Canada going to continue to contribute to that?

[Françoise Ducros]

The national solidarity program is actually a program delivered by the Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund, to which Canada contributed. A lot of it went into education, and that may be one of the tools as we move forward with education. It's a multi-donor project.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

But not this specific program?

[Françoise Ducros]

The NSP? Well, we'll have to work that through. We're still in the planning stages. But part of what the NSP provided was local projects around education, so we wouldn't rule that in or out at this point.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but I know that we were at the Kabul conference, and we were told again in Afghanistan that one of the big concerns of the Afghan government was that all the people delivering the programs were non-governmental people or outside agencies, and the government was not seen as being a player in any of this.

That was considered to be a negative for nation building, for institution building, and for building confidence in the government, and they wanted a 50% commitment to donors.... I understand from what you said that Canada is giving zero money to the Afghan government for them to deliver programs. Am I right or wrong about that?

[Françoise Ducros]

You're not right about it--

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

I thought I heard you say that.

[Françoise Ducros]

No. Canada is giving no money directly to the Afghan government. Canada is giving money to the Afghanistan Reconstruction Trust Fund, which actually programs according to those Kabul priorities. So the Government of Afghanistan has developed its priorities pursuant to their development strategy and, now, the Kabul conference. Some of those priorities include building capacity, training teachers, and ensuring curriculum.

We do that in consultation with the Afghan government, but it is done through the financing mechanism of the trust fund, so it is not “to” the budget, but on budget, with the proper oversight and accounting mechanisms to ensure the money is well spent.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

We were told by CARE Canada that the Ministry of Women's Affairs is grossly underfunded and doesn't have the funds to do the job in supporting women's activities in Afghanistan. Can we possibly help that agency?

[Françoise Ducros]

I'm not in a position to say what we will do project by project as we move forward, but it is certainly something we have supported in the past through the UNDP, and we'll certainly look at it as we develop programming with women.

But I do want to be straightforward: our focus will be on education and humanitarian assistance. So insofar as that fits in, we would look at programs such as that and projects such as that.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Paul.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you to our witnesses.

Ms. Bossenmaier, I'll ask you this question. When did you become aware that there was going to be a change in direction in the Canadian mission in Afghanistan? In other words, when did you learn about the Prime Minister's decision to change from no extension of the military mission to an extension of it?

[Greta Bossenmaier]

Mr. Chair, as you know, the government made an announcement last week in terms of what Canada's new role will be in Afghanistan post-2011. As to when I found out, this is a whole-of-government mission, we work collectively, and when I found out...I don't really believe that's something I can advise the committee of.

[Paul Dewar, NDP, Ottawa Centre, ON]

So you can't tell us whether it was last week that you found out?

[Greta Bossenmaier]

No.