Evidence of meeting #8 for Special Committee on the Canadian Mission in Afghanistan in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was nds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
I think it would have been clear at that time. I certainly think that as of today it is very clear.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Thank you Mr. Chair.
I would just like to cover one point. You talked about the importance of having individual cases reviewed. Are you aware that in fact that is what commanders on the ground in Afghanistan do and have done since at least 2007; that every detainee case is reviewed individually by the commander?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
I expect that's what they do.
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
I'm not personally aware, but that is certainly what I expected.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Well, it has been the testimony of every commander who has come before us. So to the point you are making—that this is important—we are in fact doing it.
A lot of the points you made are very valid points about what should be done. My point is that while that's true, we are doing some or all of those things—perhaps to a level that everybody would like to see raised—
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
It's not the fact that the review is taking place that I'm concerned about; it is the conclusions of that review.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Well, understand also that these are people who are on the ground, at the face, who understand the NDS, understand the operation, understand all of the things that we don't appreciate sitting here in Ottawa, and with respect, that you might not appreciate wherever your office is.
Would you agree that things have improved—not as much as anybody would like, but we are dealing with a very different country in very difficult circumstances and a very difficult situation. But things have improved. Is that fair to say?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
I think that if any detainee is tortured, things certainly haven't improved for him.
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Conservative
The Chair Conservative Kevin Sorenson
Thank you.
We'll go to Mr. Bachand for one minute...two minutes—
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Some hon. members
Oh, oh!
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
I will do this quickly because I only have three minutes. Please follow me closely and answer yes or no.
First, with regard to the memorandum of understanding, even if the surveillance system has improved as the other side seems to be saying, do you feel that the two agreements in 2005 and 2007 are inadequate?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
That is correct.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Second, given that inadequacy, you are asking that transfers cease immediately, correct?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
Yes.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Third, the matter could be resolved with a full-time presence in the detention centres, in cooperation with our NATO allies. Did I understand you correctly?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
That is one recommendation I am making. It is not necessarily the only solution, but it is a recommendation that I suggest Canada take seriously.
4:25 p.m.
Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
Okay.
Fourth, you said that explicit consent from the NDS is necessary. What happens, in your view, if the NDS refuses? Do we give up and say that we are done or do we insist on an agreement?
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
Do you mean regarding the MIU?
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Bloc
Claude Bachand Bloc Saint-Jean, QC
No, I mean regarding the National Directorate of Security. You say here that you need them to accept this.
4:25 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Terrorism and Counterterrorism Program, Human Rights Watch
Yes. It's not that I believe it's legally required. I think it's practically essential that the NDS accept the monitoring. If you're going to have a full-time monitor at an NDS detention facility, it's important that the NDS support that effort.
