Agriculture Committee on Nov. 9th, 2006

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I just think it's completely inappropriate. We have a recommendation here that the minister act in a way that is contrary to an act of Parliament, so I don't see how the committee can recommend that, especially the second item. It is contrary to what the act says clearly. Mr. Easter should know that, and he's recommending that we do that in spite of what the act says. The question's there. He can put what he wants down there. The minister is given the responsibility to lay those out. But the second one is contrary to the Canadian Wheat Board Act and who is allowed to vote in those elections.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Mr. Easter, I have you on the list.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

On your point, Barry, about good faith, I find it absolutely amazing that the governing party could talk about good faith relative to this issue, because the governing party and the minister have shown anything but good faith in terms of dealing with this issue.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

That's true. There's been everything from firing board members to directives to the board--which has never happened before, with the exception of Afghanistan--and I could go through a list. So I find it absolutely amazing that this is the position you take.

It's also absolutely amazing that you're falling back on the Canadian Wheat Board Act when you did everything you could to undermine it.

I know Ken has called for the question, but I would prefer, Ken, if you would agree, that the motion be withdrawn for the moment. I will redraft a motion after looking at the legal opinion. I personally see nothing wrong with the motion, because it is a recommendation from this committee to the minister that would be reported to the House, but I will talk to legal counsel on our own part to make sure that the motion, as worded, conforms with legal requirements.

So if you would be in agreement, I would withdraw the motion for the time being. I can tell you it will be coming back in a similar form, if I get agreement on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

That's fine. It's up to Mr. Boshcoff to remove the question.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Chair, the reason I stated that we should challenge the chair's ruling on whether it was admissible or not is that I feel very strongly that in a democratic forum, if the committee recommends something.... That's exactly what we do every day, every time we meet in this committee. The motion is absolutely not saying that Parliament should dismiss itself; it's a recommendation to the Minister of Agriculture.

So in the interests of the suggestion that it will be redrafted, I will withdraw that challenge to the chair now, but please know I'm....

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

You'll hold it in abeyance.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I shall.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

All right, thank you, Mr. Boshcoff.

Is there any further discussion on this issue?

Mr. Easter.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I do have another point of order. It's not on this issue, though.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Okay.

Are we done on this issue?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Are we satisfied on that, Mr. Chair, for now?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Yes.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, there have been some developments relative to the Wheat Board issue. I do think we have, in the first appointment to the board by the minister, an anti-single-desk-selling person. Now we have another in Mr. Bruce Johnson. This appointment is very, very serious.

When I look at the gentleman's history, I do not believe--I'll state my opinion up front and on the record--that the gentleman can meet the requirements of the Wheat Board Act in terms of the appointment. He should be called before this committee forthwith, as soon as it is gazetted. I don't know if it has been gazetted yet, but I understand that has to be done first.

This committee needs to discuss with this individual, Mr. Johnson, the credibility of his being appointed as a director of the Canadian Wheat Board--appointed after, of course, the firing of Ross Keith, who wrote a letter of disagreement with the minister, which is, Larry, not acting in good faith relative to the board.

Secondly, I would expect the committee to prepare a report on the Canadian Wheat Board hearings we've undertaken. I think it's important, if we're going to do that, to have one of the key witnesses that we haven't met with yet in this set of hearings--namely, the Wheat Board itself. The board has prepared an economic analysis that the task force said it didn't take into consideration.

The Prime Minister himself, yesterday in the House, went after Mr. Atamanenko's leader, Jack Layton, asking how he could ask such a question without first having considered the cost; the government has a moral responsibility to consider costs. Yet here we are dealing with a task force, a government position, that is not in any way dealing with the cost-benefit analysis relative to the loss of single-desk selling.

So I would encourage the committee that we need to do a report, but first the Canadian Wheat Board should be brought forward as a witness. As well, this new appointment, Bruce Johnson, should definitely be here, and be here forthwith.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

On your point of order, Mr. Easter, you'll be happy to know that the steering committee the other day did set aside a date. So far it's been projected that on December 5 the Wheat Board will be brought in. As well, we're hoping that by that time the gazetting process will be finished and Mr. Johnson can be here.

So we've done that.

Is there any other discussion on this? Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I was just going to make the point that I wasn't prepared to let Mr. Easter interfere with the election process any further than he has already. December 5 is the very earliest date that I'm sure those folks would be able to be here.

Neither are we prepared for Mr. Easter to go on a witch hunt of the people he doesn't like on a personal basis. The minister has operated in good faith at all points. He's appointed the people, as he's allowed to, to the board of directors. Hopefully he'll be doing more of that in the future.

In terms of the costs, absolutely no one has a more vested interest in giving a jaded picture of the costs than does the Canadian Wheat Board. If Mr. Easter really wants to find out what the costs of the Wheat Board are, I would suggest that he encourage his senators to bring the Accountability Act with a Wheat Board amendment in it. Then farmers can see what the Wheat Board is actually spending and what it's costing them to have the board sit there and operate selling grain in western Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Mr. Easter, a rebuttal?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Yes, thank you.

I wonder, on that point, if Mr. Anderson would.... I know for a fact that the Government of Canada, in its initial draft of the Accountability Act, did not put in that the Canadian Wheat Board should operate under access to information. In fact, the legal opinion to the Government of Canada was that the Wheat Board should not have to abide by the Access to Information Act because it is not a government entity, not a government agency.

I wonder if Mr. Anderson, seeing as he is parliamentary secretary, could table that legal opinion with us.

Mr. Anderson knows full well that the way the Access to Information Act got applied to the Canadian Wheat Board was that there was a motion by a member at committee--not on the government side, but from Winnipeg Centre, I believe--to put it under.... That individual has since reconsidered their position, and in fact voted to take that part out of the bill. The Senate has now changed it.

As well, I understand that Mr. Anderson has presented a letter to the chair of the Senate committee, Senator Day. From what I heard about the letter, it was very misleading in terms of what the Wheat Board does. It's the most transparent grain company out there.

So I wonder if he might table a copy of that letter with the committee as well so that we could have a look at what the parliamentary secretary said to the Senate in terms of the bill.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Mr. Anderson.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I could go on all day—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

I know that, but we're running out of time, gentlemen.

[David Anderson, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

—but I just want to make the point that I'm glad to hear Mr. Easter refer to it as a grain company. That's a big improvement from the position he has usually taken.

That actually was corrected when the bill was brought in with the help of the NDP and the Bloc, and we look forward to working with them on this in the future as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gerry Ritz]

Alex.

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

Hopefully I'm not making a political statement, but one of competency.

I just want it noted that we're not happy with the appointment of the second person who was appointed by the minister because of the fact that he was fired from the Saskatchewan Wheat Pool. I think we have to investigate why. This company apparently wasn't doing well, so he was fired. I don't think we should be taking somebody who hasn't been producing, to be in this very important position.