Have you read it?
Evidence of meeting #32 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seeds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #32 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was seeds.
A recording is available from Parliament.
1:40 p.m.
Director, Canadian Wheat Board
I've read the executive summary. I haven't read the whole report.
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
Have you read the full report, Mr. Motiuk?
1:40 p.m.
Director, Board of Directors of The Canadian Wheat Board, Canadian Wheat Board
I read the executive summaries of a number of reports. We call them duelling economist studies. You can get a stack in this hand that's saying there's an advantage to the single desk, and you can get a stack over here saying there's no advantage to the single desk, that it in fact costs money. That's some of the work done by Lyons.
The numbers that the Wheat Board puts out officially are largely in-house estimates by staff and by management. They've never been audited by an accredited auditor, a third party auditor, so we are certainly asking questions to find out more as to whether or not there is in fact any kind of a premium obtainable.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerry Ritz
Your time has expired, Mr. Atamanenko.
Mr. Johnson, did you have anything further on that point?
1:40 p.m.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
I find it a little bit strange that two people who want to be directors have not studied in depth not only the Fulton report but other reports that concern the future not only of the Wheat Board, but as well, the whole grain industry in Canada. I suggest, gentlemen, that it's time to do some homework.
1:40 p.m.
Director, Canadian Wheat Board
I don't want to leave the impression that we haven't looked at the studies. I'm just saying that particular one is at the executive summary stage.
1:40 p.m.
Conservative
December 7th, 2006 / 1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I like to see your passion. You make a good combatant for Wayne here.
I don't want to argue the point as to whether single desk is good or not good. That's a debate for farmers, and I'd like to see it settled. I don't know of a better way to do it than to have a vote by the producers. I recognize it's a difficult situation.
I am concerned a little bit about something. I know people in the medical profession, the health services profession, who believe we should have a user-pay system competing with the public-pay one. I believe in universal health care and I don't share their beliefs on that question. Like those people on both sides of your discussion, they both have valid points, and good people can differ in their opinions. But I wouldn't like the CEO of my regional health authority or my hospital to be somebody who does not believe in universal health care. I would be afraid that this person's interest would be in proving that the system he is asked to manage cannot work, and that he'd have to build a new user-pay system, which is what he prefers.
So you'll understand that I have concerns not about your views, but about the position you are being asked to take in managing a single desk marketing authority. Should it come to pass that it not be a single desk and that you'll be competing in the world with others, perhaps you will be the ideal gentlemen to be on that authority because you believe in competition. But I wonder if you have the capability, the desire, and the heart to go out there and prove that the single desk can work. Maybe the minister will see the light of day and we'll have a vote on wheat and there will be a decision to maintain it.
I understand that it is not unanimous among western producers, that it is a matter of debate. But should that come to pass, then you're in a position where you're asked to make the single desk work to its maximum advantage, to make the modifications in the single desk system to take advantage of the opportunities that have been argued successfully here—and we heard Ken Ritter point to some of the decisions and changes that they have made.
So I ask you to tell me, to convince me, that you have the heart to make the single desk system work, if that's the decision that is taken, and that you're not there just to argue against it, to argue that it cannot work.
1:40 p.m.
Director, Canadian Wheat Board
I'll start out with that.
I have a high regard for democracy, and the board really does function now on the basis of simple majority. There have been decisions that have gone against perhaps what I wanted to see happen, but basically the deal is that you pitch in and support the board.
On the other hand, we have a split constituency out there, and there are a large number of farmers who want choice. I think it's reasonable that a board of directors would represent the wishes of both sides of the argument as we go forward.
It comes down just to a matter of simple professionalism. If you agree to certain terms of office, you abide by them. If the democratic choice of farmers in a plebiscite, as indicated by the minister, on barley says that it stays as a monopoly, we're bound by it and we'll be committed to it.
1:45 p.m.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
Barley, I think, is a foregone conclusion. I think what's really at play here is wheat. We haven't had a plebiscite, and we know that the new board is being set up to reflect the views of the minister, that he's trying to get as many people who reflect his views as possible, through appointment and through election, and that they have a year to sabotage the Wheat Board.
Right now he's asked that members of the board or the board itself not promote itself, not talk about the good things they can do. He's fired the president and CEO for doing that. So there's a good year or year and a half during which the new board can sabotage the Wheat Board and create a negative vote amongst farmers.
Those are my concerns. I have no problem if in the new world, should the farmers choose, that board reflects that view. That would even be necessary, I believe. But in the meantime we still have the single desk. I believe the board should promote the single desk and bring aboard expertise.
Mr. Motiuk is a producer and he comes on the board representing that point of view, as do the other elected ones.
You, Mr. Johnson, are being brought in, I suspect, in the expertise category. Mr. Easter has made a good argument that your expertise might be questionable. I have no details on that; I have no information. But I do know that you're very much opposed to the single desk system; you don't believe in the single desk. But you're being asked to promote it; you're being asked to make it survive. And that's a dilemma, in my mind.
1:45 p.m.
Director, Canadian Wheat Board
I would imagine as an elected member you face the same dilemma very often, too, in terms of party line on certain issues. It's an identical situation.
I'm happy to serve. I love the grain industry. I've been part of it for 25 years, and I look forward to being part of it for a few more years. But my appointment really came about more on the basis of expertise than politics. As I indicated to the other gentlemen, I'm not known as a Tory or an NDP or a Liberal. My view has been that I am in favour of open market and choice.
1:45 p.m.
Director, Board of Directors of The Canadian Wheat Board, Canadian Wheat Board
I'll try to be brief, Mr. Chairman.
We cannot ignore the fact that there are thousands and thousands of farmers in western Canada who wish to have the choice to market their grain the way they wish. They are not imposing their will upon others who wish to pool their grain. And that's the fundamental issue here. It's a fundamental issue of minority rights, which comes right down to being a Canadian.
Who represents the minority in this issue, and what rights do they have in Canada? Though this group may be a minority in absolute number, they may well be a majority in terms of grain produced. We don't know that for sure.
We spend a lot of time in this country arguing about minority rights. Right now you're in a debate just across the hall here about minority rights, about those who wish to cohabit with others of the same sex.
I just want to leave you with a parting statement.
Yesterday as I was listening to C-SPAN there was a member of the House who said, “I am not in this House to limit the rights of anyone”, and that was Olivia Chow from the NDP.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gerry Ritz
Thank you, Mr. Thibault.
I have just a couple of corrections here. Mr. Gaudet actually got Mr. Johnson to admit he wasn't a member of the Bloc, as well.
You said that the minister fired Mr. Measner. I'm wondering if I was wrong in introducing him today as the president and CEO. Did I not get the memo that you did?
Who do I have next? Mr. Menzies, five minutes, the final five.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB
Thank you very much.
Let me pose a question that you as new directors probably will be faced with. My understanding is, and I'm reminded every time I see a news release from the Canadian Wheat Board, that all returns except for the cost of marketing go to the farmers. I would hope then that when the discussion comes up around the board table about more trips to Geneva..... We've seen multiple trips to Geneva by board members, by staff, not to sell grain, I'm quite sure. I would stand corrected if someone could provide me sales affidavits where sales were actually made in Geneva of wheat and barley. These costs were not costs of marketing, these costs were defending the monopoly internationally. Add to that Seattle ministerial, Doha ministerial, Hong Kong, Cancun. Many board directors, many staff, doubt that there was much wheat sold there either.
I find it very offensive that every press release says that all the money except for the cost of marketing is returned to farmers. That cost was a cost of defending the monopoly. I would hope that both of you as new directors will take this into consideration when that discussion comes up around the board table.
Mr. Motiuk, I know that you've been recognized as a pea producer. I've never been able to match your canola yields up in that country. What should be any different for you about marketing your wheat than you have marketing your canola, or your peas, or your feed barley? Can you explain the difference, why a monopoly buyer of your product of wheat and barley could gain you any more advantage over what you have in selling your canola, or your oats, or your peas?
1:50 p.m.
Director, Board of Directors of The Canadian Wheat Board, Canadian Wheat Board
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A few years ago when my wife and I sat down and developed a long-term plan for our farm, we said we had to operate in a manner where we had control over as many factors as possible. The one thing we very quickly realized is that with Wheat Board grain we do not have control over that. So we made it a very obvious choice, or a very pronounced goal, to minimize the effect of the Canadian Wheat Board on our farm, because we always made more money on non-board crops.
The problem is that when you grow crops on the Prairies, wheat is a natural adaptor to the prairie habitat, and we have to grow wheat. If we grow wheat and if it's exported--and most of the wheat is exported, as was mentioned earlier--it has to go through the Wheat Board. So we minimize the amount of wheat that we can grow through the board because we can always better manage our individual businesses by selling non-board grains. Our wheat acreage is broken into a large acreage of CPS wheat, which we market through our hog business because we have the control over when we sell it and what the price is. Again, we can't do that with export wheat.
I think if you checked out my record you'd see we operate a farm as a business to be profitable. I don't think you'll ever find me on the record anywhere crying for more government subsidies, or anything in that manner, or more support to the agricultural industry because I can't make money growing wheat or canola or something. I try to manage my own business. It's very difficult to manage my own business marketing wheat through the Canadian Wheat Board.
1:50 p.m.
Director, Canadian Wheat Board
I would just add that if indeed there is one heck of a PR machine at the board, and there is a lot of time and effort spent on advocacy, I would prefer to see us focus on sales. I'll just leave it at that.
1:50 p.m.
Conservative
Ted Menzies Conservative Macleod, AB
We had a barley plebiscite in Alberta. I won't ask Mr. Johnson, because you may have watched it from afar. But Mr. Motiuk, you and I went through that. Can you explain how that worked and how it didn't work?
1:50 p.m.
Director, Board of Directors of The Canadian Wheat Board, Canadian Wheat Board
I'm not sure of the question. I know the results were that something like 62% or 66% of farmers wished to have a choice in the way they marketed barley. That was the result.
What do you mean by the question on how it works?
1:50 p.m.
Conservative