Evidence of meeting #36 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was grou.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Karen Dodds  Executive Director, Pest Management Regulatory Agency
Gordon Bacon  Chief Executive Officer, Pulse Canada
Craig Hunter  Expert Advisor, Canadian Horticultural Council

5:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay. That's going to wrap up our questioning. We have other business to attend to.

I want to thank you, Karen Dodds, Gordon Bacon, and Craig Hunter for coming in and making your great presentations today. We had a good round of discussion.

I just want to remind Mr. Devolin that everything here is on the record and is actually broadcast publicly, so your wife probably heard that, and thanks for the reminder.

So with that, we're going to suspend for one minute while the witnesses clear away from the table, and then we'll start dealing with our motion.

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

I call the meeting back to order. We have a couple of items to deal with, and we'll start off with the motion from Mr. Easter, if you want to table your motion.

5:20 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The motion is pretty self-explanatory. The preamble pretty well covers it, but I'll read the motion:

1. That the Minister of Agriculture & Agri-food immediately rescind the questions released on January 22, 2007 upon which barley producers in western Canada are expected to vote on their future relationship with the Canadian Wheat Board and

2. Immediately implement the Sixth Report of the Standing Committee on Agriculture & Agri-food, by placing before wheat and barley producers of western Canada who have a relationship with the Canadian Wheat Board, the questions contained within that report.

And then that the motion be reported to the House. The motion has become necessary for several reasons. Key among them is the fact that the Minister of Agriculture and Agri-Food has almost shown absolute contempt for this committee in terms of its recommendations, and certainly for Parliament by not respecting the will of Parliament in terms of the questions that were replaced and voted on in Parliament as questions for a vote. The minister has clearly shown a lot of disrespect for farmers, who had proposed the questions in the first place that we passed in Parliament.

Our hope is that if we table another report giving direction, maybe the minister will reconsider.

The question the minister asked is seriously flawed, and I outline that in the preamble, but just to be clear, in terms of the dual marketing aspect of the question the minister asked, on October 25 the minister appointed a task force, which released it's report, which we now have before us, called “Marketing Choice--The Way Forward”, and at page 10 of that report it says:

“Marketing Choice” is a better term to describe the new environment than “dual marketing”. The latter term implies to some that the existing marketing approach (a CWB with monopoly powers) could co-exist with an open market approach. This is not possible.

That is the end of the quote. It is impossible, yet that question was asked.

I just want to turn to this one last point, Mr. Chair. I had asked the Library of Parliament to give me some notes on plebiscites and votes. They really turned to Patrick Boyer's book, Lawmaking by the People: Referendums and Plebiscites in Canada. He's a former MP. The Library of Parliament says that for a plebiscite to accurately reflect the public's opinion, the wording of the plebiscite question should be clear. To quote Boyer:

The courts, as well as common sense, dictate that any question submitted to electors be stated in the clearest possible terms if voters are to respond intelligently and the legislative body concerned is to understand their wishes. The question in a plebiscite should be clear, simple, and direct, explained an Alberta court early in this century, and should not refer to considerations which might influence the voters or contain uncertainties, probabilities, and possibilities which might tend to confuse them.

He goes on to say:

Ambiguity in wording which gives rise to more than one interpretation of the question (and subsequently of the result), defeats the purpose of the vote, unless it is intentionally so worded.

Mr. Chair, I don't think there is any question about the questions the minister raised. They are raised to confuse the voter. They're not clear. There is no clarity to them, so it defeats the purpose of the vote in the first place.

So for those reasons, I believe we should support this motion, and hopefully the minister will reconsider and ask a clear question.

He's already delayed the vote by a week. He said he was embarrassed for doing that, but he delayed the vote, in my opinion, to try to joggle the voters' lists a little more.

For those reasons, I put forward the motion, Mr. Chair.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay, we have a motion on the floor.

Mr. Anderson.

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Easter's obsession with this is turning into silliness, because this motion doesn't even make a lot of sense. I'd like to take a bit of time to look at it and explain to some of the folks why we need to oppose this motion.

First, it's basically a waste of time because the ballots have already gone out and they're being returned. I assume Mr. Easter wants to take this to the House and try to get his three hours of debate. It's going to be over an issue that's already passed.

But with respect to the way the motion is written, we need to go over it and talk a bit about what is actually there. He talks about the three questions, which are very clear: the Canadian Wheat Board should retain the single desk; I'd like the option of marketing my barley to the board or to others; or the board shouldn't be marketing barley. It's not complicated. Those questions are the ones the Wheat Board has used on its survey for years. That's what they used to gauge their support.

This idea that somehow these questions are too complicated for western Canadian producers is an insult to those people. I think probably some of the people who are saying that should apologize, because farmers are smart enough to understand these questions. They're clear, simple, direct, uncomplicated, and very straightforward.

The second of the three questions says that a dual-market option is a viable alternative. Please go down to the next paragraph, where Mr. Easter talks about page 10 in the report. If the members want to turn to page 10, they can see what that paragraph really says about marketing choice.

I'm going to read it out in its entirety, and I'm going to make an amendment that rather than his partial quote, we include this, so that people can be clear as to what's really in this section.

Section 2.0 is entitled, “what marketing choice means”, and reads:

Marketing Choice means that wheat and barley farmers will be able to sell wheat and barley to any domestic or foreign buyer of their choice, including a transformed Canadian Wheat Board (CWB II). “Marketing Choice” is a better term to describe the new environment than “dual marketing”.

You notice they're not saying that dual marketing can't exist.

The latter term implies to some that the existing marketing approach (a CWB with monopoly powers) could co-exist with an open market approach.

By definition, that's possible. If you think about it, you can't have the two things existing at the same time. So clearly:

Marketing choice implies an open market in which CWB II, as an entity operating in that open market, will be a vigorous participant through which producers could voluntarily choose to market their grain.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

A point of order.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We have a point of order.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Mr. Anderson inserted that this is indeed possible, but that's not what the quote says. If he's going to quote the quote, then quote it directly, clearly, and absolutely.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Anderson, I ask that you—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

To quote:

...will be a vigorous participant through which producers could voluntarily choose to market their grain. To achieve this, the existing CWB will need to transform itself over a transition period into CWB II. For this 'choice' to occur, CWB II needs to have a high probability of success in an environment where it will have to compete for business. One of our focuses has been on creating the environment for a high probability of commercial success for CWB II.

And if people take the time to read the task force, they will see that the bulk of the task force is actually about giving the Wheat Board an opportunity to survive, making it successful for the future.

I'm going to make the amendment later that we insert this as a whole section there, so that people can see that indeed it does talk about dual marketing and marketing choice.

Actually, the point that needs to be made is that marketing choice is another term for dual marketing. They're clarifying the concept here; they're not denigrating it. So it's exactly the opposite of what Mr. Easter is alleging. That's enough right there to throw this motion out, but we can go on to some of the other parts of it as well.

Do we want to continue, Mr. Chair? We have a vote. I can certainly continue here; I don't have any problem with continuing.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

I leave it up to the discretion of the committee.

I believe we should head over for votes. So we can suspend the meeting and come back after votes. We can put this off to another—

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

You might as well put the question right now, Mr. Chairman.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

I'm not prepared to put the question. We have quite a bit of discussion left on this, and my colleagues as well.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

The parliamentary secretary is continuing to play with words. He doesn't take direction from the committee, and we've seen some of his misinformation—

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Easter, Mr. Anderson has the floor now. Mr. Miller wants to speak to this motion as well, so you have to allow the process to take place.

Mr. Anderson.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

Thank you.

Mr. Atamanenko.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Alex.

5:30 p.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

Although I agree with what Wayne is saying, because this is a democratic committee, we all need to have a choice and a chance to speak. If we have to go for a vote, we're not going to have a chance to do that, so I'd like to throw that out.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

David.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK

A suggestion would be that we adjourn now and come back at 3:15 on Thursday to pick up the debate. We'll have 15 or 30 minutes to conclude our discussion before we hear witnesses.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

We have a full day on Thursday. I'm at the discretion of the committee here.

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I have no problem with that.

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Okay, let's do that. We'll adjourn and come back at 3:15 to continue the debate on Mr. Easter's motion.

The meeting is adjourned.