Agriculture Committee on Feb. 13th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Mr. Miller, five minutes, please.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and I'll take this opportunity to congratulate you, Mr. Chairman, on your election. And I thank the witnesses for being here today.

Ms. Dodds, I have to comment on one of your last comments about some of the things speeding up in the last year or so, and I do sincerely—

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Whoa, whoa.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Pardon?

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Careful, careful.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Yes. That's what they said. I don't know whether I said something wrong there, but I don't think so.

I do hope this is a sign of the times and we see that kind of improvement.

I still am a little uneasy about putting the OUI program on hold. The one question I have is this. Say we get into this GROU experiment, as I'll call it, we get eight months in and we realize it's not working. How long does it take to go back to the other program? Is it going to take six months? Can it be done overnight?

[Karen Dodds]

We're saying keep the regulation essentially as it is on the books. So in terms of turning it back on, it's a matter of under own-use import you need a sponsor who can show equivalence of two products. They can have that at the ready right away, so it isn't a six-month lag time.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Okay, so it's fairly quick, then. That is what you're saying.

[Karen Dodds]

It depends on the sponsors being ready with the information about products.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

So what you're saying is, it could drag on for a time if somebody isn't ready to go.

[Karen Dodds]

That would be the case even with current own-use import. This is one of the issues growers have, that under own-use import there's a requirement for the growers to have the information that products are equivalent, which is a harder situation than under GROU, where the registrants are participating, and it's sent us in paper.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Can anything be done to change that? What I'm getting at here is, if you get into it and you find out--and let's hope what I'm talking about doesn't bear fruit, but in the event that it does, I think the transition back needs to come as quickly as possible. Can anything be done? I'll ask the gentlemen to comment as well. Do you think there's any way the process could be improved?

[Craig Hunter]

The biggest single issue I see is that currently the company that owns ClearOut 41 Plus in Canada has chosen not to participate in GROU, as the other 12 companies did. If the OUI program ended yesterday, let's say, they would be at the table tomorrow to participate because no company can afford or would want to lose the sale of six million litres of product--that's several million dollars' worth of sales they don't want to lose. They can sell that same product through the GROU program, if they choose to participate, if it is the same, and I have no doubt it is the same. If the glyphosate availability was part of the GROU program, you've got exactly, for the growers, what they've got now, plus a lot more. Really, that's the only issue, voluntary participation. Nobody wants to lose sales of six million litres a year for a couple of years. That's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Gordon Bacon]

Could I add a comment? I think the task force wanted to see a pilot project under GROU, so out of that pilot project I think the work that's gone on has shown that eight products could be deemed equivalent and could be participants under the GROU pilot project. I think the expectation is that the GROU project would expand; it would include more products. I think we need to look for milestones as to how we measure progress. I think it's not just looking at the pilot project but seeing where we go with this in bringing more products under that GROU program.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Dr. Dodds, you talked earlier in your presentation about working together with more countries--Europe, Asia, the U.S. You indicated already that progress between the United States and Canada has been working fairly well. When you get more players involved around the world, more countries, is that going to in any way complicate or slow the process? And this can go to you gentlemen as well. Sometimes the more people you've got, the harder it is to get something done. I'd like to hear some comments on that.

[Karen Dodds]

I think parties should recognize that when you're doing something for the first time as opposed to the twentieth time, or the fortieth, it's always more difficult. So in terms of joint reviews and talking with registrants, it's been a learning experience for all involved. We're at the point now where one of the major five registrants has told us that this is their business model; they're always using joint reviews. Others are still learning as they go and experimenting with it.

On the global joint reviews, again, the companies are saying that you do put in more effort up front, but compared with coming independently to Europe, to the U.S., to Canada, to Australia, to New Zealand, they recognize that there is less upfront effort there than doing it all separately.

But it's still quite an effort. We had to send people to scheduling meetings where they figured out who was going to do what part of the review, to have some good clarity--i.e., we're doing studies 10 through 20, the U.S. is doing studies 20 through 25, and this is the timetable.

So it takes an awful lot of upfront effort to make agreements, to schedule, to have registrants involved, but the joint reviews, especially between Canada and the U.S., as I said, are clearly building momentum. The registrants are recognizing that although it seems to be more effort, it is actually less effort than going to the two countries individually.

Because we as a regulator see the advantage, we are offering them incentives to submit joint reviews. In terms of things like field trials, we've been clear. We'll say, for instance, that if you bring a joint review to us, you'll get at least a 25% reduction in the number of field trials you have to do, as compared to your coming to the U.S. and Canada separately. And our cost estimates show that the savings there alone are very considerable.

Again, internationally this is the first truly global.... This isn't the first time it's been Canada, U.S., and Europe, but this is the first time it's been Canada, U.S., Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Japan participating.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you, Larry.

I have a quick question. The thing that is probably of greatest concern out there is what's going to happen with ClearOut 41. We know that ClearOut is.... Registration under OUI is done in June, yet they haven't applied under the GROU program.

What's going to happen here? This is where the concern is at the farm gate.

[Karen Dodds]

From the farmer's perspective, they can order and import now, before June 28, what they need for the whole growing season. That's clear. They can address the whole 2007 growing season in advance of June 28.

So if you're a farmer and you want to have the product there, to have certainty--order it now, get it in now--that's allowed. In terms of after June 28, we've advised Farmers of North America, the sponsor, that the equivalency certificate they hold expires. They know what they need to do to extend the equivalency certificate.

Now, if it weren't eligible under GROU, it wouldn't be eligible to continue under own-use import. The U.S. registrant knows the status. We don't yet. But it either would be eligible after June 28...in some ways under both, or under neither, if the U.S. registrant has changed the formulation.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

So the U.S. company is in the driver's seat here.

[Karen Dodds]

I would say.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay. And what happens with the product that's on farm as of June 28 that still can be used—

[Karen Dodds]

A condition of the program is that farmers can import and use for a full growing season. I mean, we don't want it coming in during the cold of winter, but nothing prohibits them from importing, in advance of June 28, sufficient product to use for the whole 2007 growing season.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay.

No questions from your side?

Okay, a quick one, Mr. Steckle.

[Paul Steckle, Liberal, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Can you tell me about the Farmers of North America? What's their role? Who are these people? I think probably all of us are asking that. We don't have any familiarity with that organization.

We're all farmers of North America, I guess, but I think they're—