Evidence of meeting #47 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was industry.
9:25 a.m.
Growers Chair, B.C. Landscape & Nursery Association
I guess the worry is that we'll be left out if we go to commodities-specific types of compensation or assistance rather than a program-based system. If there's a way to ensure that nobody is left out and it stayed fair, then that would be pretty good, I guess.
9:25 a.m.
British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
The Cattlemen's Association would prefer a national disaster program first. I think if we had a disaster program, it would take that bottom risk out of it and we would feel a lot more comfortable. If there were a NISA program or something similar where the producers could contribute and spend the money where needed, that would look after the individual and then a disaster program would look after the general agriculture. That's where I see a national program--all commodities would have a national disaster program.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
9:25 a.m.
Executive Director, B.C. Agriculture Council
I think it's a good question.
Without downplaying the importance of a business risk management program and a good framework for that, which is needed, one of the key things we need to do in the next generation of the agricultural policy framework, as I said earlier, is to have more strategic investment in sectors or areas with more flexibility where there is opportunity to grow the sector and grow the industry. We need a focus on the total value chain in terms of how you produce and provide benefits all the way through the chain, from the processors down through to the primary producers that improve the bottom line and the net income of producers. These would be areas of research, innovation, infrastructure--those kinds of things.
How do you translate the environmental programming and food safety programming and everything to improve the bottom line for producers? We can't continue to always do it through risk management programming. We need to find the types of flexibility and strategic investment, whether it's tax treatment, investment in marketing, or investment in research that end up improving the bottom line of primary producers.
A focus on domestic marketing and branding, as well, is something that needs to be looked at. One of the frameworks of the first policy framework was the branding Canada program, which was a good program focused on branding Canada in the international market. I think what was missing in that part of it was branding Canada or branding food production in the domestic market to convince consumers that they need to pay more for Canadian product. We have a cheap food policy in B.C. and in Canada. We need to find a way that improves the returns to producers through that type of strategic investment.
9:25 a.m.
Director, British Columbia Grapegrowers Association
Thank you.
I do see a lot of potential in the future for a program such as ecological goods and services payments. These are programs that have worked really well in other parts of the world, especially in Europe, and have supported the agriculture community to an enormous degree. This is a win-win approach. Society wins by rewarding specific ecological activities on farms, and the farmers win by getting financial support, which is not considered a subsidy. The only drawback to this is that it is very expensive. If you look at the European precedent, a lot of money is spent on these types of programs, but they are very effective.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
9:30 a.m.
Bloc
Roger Gaudet Bloc Montcalm, QC
Do you think that development in the biofuels sector will, in the long term, help farmers or hurt them?
9:30 a.m.
Director, British Columbia Grapegrowers Association
Being an organic farmer myself, I do think there is still potential for growth in the sector. The problem we are facing is that demand is much bigger than the supply, and there is reluctance from the production side to converge to the organic farming, partly because there is more and more red tape associated with organic farming, but there is certainly more potential in the long run. I would say that 10% or 15% of the market could be organic. But at the same time, I also see that there is development in what we would call “conventional” agriculture that is moving more and more towards sustainable agricultural practices, and I believe this will have a big impact on the environment in the long term as well.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Thank you very much.
One student in the class is more gifted than the others. I noticed this week that Ms. Allard gave him extra work to do, referring to these assignments as "challenges". I think this is an excellent idea. The student is not held back at all and furthermore, he seems to be quite motivated by the idea of overcoming these challenges. He is very proud when he comes up with the right answer. This strategy is worth remembering. Mr. Miller, for seven minutes.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you to our guests. It's nice to be in British Columbia. Welcome here.
I have three or four questions, and I'll lay them out.
Mr. Loewen, you mentioned disasters and what have you. Our government has made a conscious effort to try to get a separate disaster program in place. One thing I want to ask you about is where you talked about flooding in some area, I presume the area where you farm. I guess when I think of a disaster—and I'm a farmer too—I normally think of it as something that happens abnormally every 10 or 20 years or longer. For example, the avian flu was definitely a disaster, as was the BSE crisis in the beef industry and things like that, and the Manitoba flood back five years ago, or whatever it was. Those were very significant and definite disasters. Do we need to get a distinct definition of really what a disaster is? For something such as flooding that may happen in your area every three to five years, or whatever, is that really a disaster?
I guess where I'm leading on this question is do you think crop insurance needs to be mandatory? I will say, as a farmer, I never had much use for crop insurance, but some do and they rely on it, so that's something.
To Hedy, what is the single most important change that PMRA could make to improve the approval process?
To Mr. Willis, you talked about the CAIS program and heading in the right direction with this top-up. One thing I found in consultation with a lot of farmers, but particularly in the beef industry, is that it seems that the medium to larger and maybe more efficient farmers seem to be quite happy with CAIS overall, with some minor adjustments. I hear that from them. Not all of them are, but a large percentage are. So do you think the primary focus should be more on trying to save the family farm, or on making agriculture in general globally competitive, that kind of thing?
Mr. Buchler, you were talking about agricultural land disappearing. We have the same thing in our part of the world. With our proximity to Georgian Bay and Toronto, we have people who can sell a $500,000 or $750,000 home down there and come up and buy 100 acres of God's country, and farmers can't compete. We have that problem, but it has to be dealt with through municipal and provincial planning. Were you thinking or suggesting that government should be compensating in some way or another? I'm just wondering where you'd go with that.
If we could, let's start with those questions.
9:30 a.m.
Growers Chair, B.C. Landscape & Nursery Association
I guess disaster and compensation and how to quantify that is the question. It should be quantified by dollars. That's probably the only fair way. That's the only way to realize that with a flood in the Fraser Valley—the last major one was in 1948—if it happens again this year, it will cover a small area of land and there will be unbelievably high dollars involved in agriculture and otherwise, as opposed to a flood in Manitoba, where the farms are widespread and of less value per acre. So I think it has to be quantified by dollars, and that has to be determined.
I know the nursery industry has done a lot to establish benchmarks for the CAIS program, on what the value is per acre, the value per plant, per square metre, and average roadways. We've tried to do a lot of work to establish what a nursery should look like on paper so that they have benchmarks to work from. I guess we just have to persist with that kind of work and get it all transparent.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
You said 1948 was the last big flood. Is that what you said?
9:35 a.m.
Contract Industry Coordinator, Nursery Industry Development, B.C. Landscape & Nursery Association
With regard to the PMRA, I think enabling them to use USDA data.... A lot of the research is actually done up here and then it goes back to the U.S., and Canada won't use it. I know there's a sovereignty issue, but at the same time we are a part of NAFO and NAFTA, and from what we understand, it's supposed to be one big continent. So there should be no reason why we can't share information like that.
Right now, we're doing ad hoc emergency usage registrations just to get through some simple things. We have a brand-new infestation of a regulated pest called a European brown garden snail in a very small area in a Richmond nursery. They have to do an emergency use of a product called Sevin, which is so innocuous that you can use it on cats for fleas. But to do these kinds of strange things when.... There are much easier ways to do this.
9:35 a.m.
British Columbia Cattlemen's Association
Thanks for the question, Larry.
I think the CAIS program hasn't been bankable and it's too late in responding. You get your cheques almost two years later. It's just not responsive, and it's not bankable. You can't go to your bank and sit down and do a cashflow and say how much money you have coming, that you have a shortfall and the CAIS program will be.... If you had something like the NISA program, you'd have your exact statement there. If you want to withdraw so much money to help with your cashflow that year, the banker can understand that; there's a statement there.
If nothing else, if we could get the CAIS program to where it's easy to understand.... I think the only ones who understand it are the accountants, and even from talking to my accountant, I'm not sure that he understands it that well. I think the only ones who are making a lot of money out of this system are the accountants. I look at the changes in my accounting bills and they're substantial.
I don't think we have to pick a side. We have to be very careful. The family farms are in jeopardy, but we can't design programs for one sector over another. We have to be uniform in how we deliver our programs for the large producers as well as the family farms and the small producers. Canada is very diverse, and if you look at the size of operations based in this country, our programs have to be fair for all.
9:35 a.m.
Director, British Columbia Grapegrowers Association
I assume your question is on whether the government should compensate for land values--is that it?
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I was trying to get the direction you were heading there.
9:35 a.m.
Director, British Columbia Grapegrowers Association
In B.C. we do have an agricultural land resource that is there to protect the production base. In theory, it could work. In practice, there has been a lot of erosion, especially in some of the areas of high population density. If this were a really strict reserve with absolutely no opportunity for exclusion, it would probably work.
Ontario is trying this with the greenbelts, as well. I think it is improving in British Columbia. I think there is more of a will to actually keep the reserves.
The other option is for government to buy up all agricultural land that comes for sale. The question is, does government have the money to do this? The answer is probably not. But that would be one option, that government could actually set up a land trust and then lease it out to qualifying producers. There are precedents around the world for this as well.
9:40 a.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I think they call that “communism” in other countries.