Agriculture Committee on April 17th, 2007

[Leona Dargis]

For example, last Saturday I organized the Alberta Young Farmers' Forum at our annual general meeting, so I think it's definitely having that connection or that association of young farmers together. Last year we had 12 members and this year we have 50 members, so we're definitely hoping to continue that. If every province has a young farmers' association connected to the Canadian Young Farmers', then we can have $8,000 to spend on a yearly basis. I spent half of that just trying to get our AGM right now, but I think we could definitely take it a step further and spend twice that money trying to get three times the people and get a higher calibre of speakers, who can really offer critical information to the farms, to go through the steps of succession planning.

This weekend we had Mr. Reg Shandro, who works with Meyers Norris Penny, and he does his own consulting. He does the presentation for FCC on succession planning and whatnot, so the information he gave us in the hour was wonderful, but we need the full day to learn and to be there with our parents and to recognize the important issues that need to be brought up. A lot of it does get personal. Our family has five daughters, so if some of my sisters don't want to farm, is it fair—? Essentially, of course, it's up to my parents to make that decision. As the eldest, I'm very involved and passionate about the agriculture industry. What role do I have? Of course, I'm always going to keep that farm connection, but I think the best way is to provide opportunities for us young farmers to get together to learn, to ask the hard questions, and to make things happen. That's really what it comes down to. I think another benefit of our being together is that we'll share experiences and we'll think of new ways to approach and talk to our parents. That's the best way to approach that.

Again, do farmers have time or do they have the money to come or to pay? That's another challenge. On Saturday, I charged $30 for them to come because I wasn't out to break even; I had that $8,000 I could have spent.

Would you like further—?

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I should like to get some details on what you, the next generation, would like the government to do to help you when parents transfer their farm to you so that everything goes smoothly, and you don't have to start from scratch. Should we remove the capital gain tax or change it? I don't't know. I should like to hear your views in order to suggest them to the government.

[Leona Dargis]

Again, it goes back to the fact that every farm is individual. For us to treat every farm as individual is very timely and very costly. Having educational programs like the CAIS program helps support farm kids to get an education and get that network. I think that's important, but as far as capital costs and whatnot, it would be wonderful.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

That's it. You have four sisters. Let us suppose that two of them and you decide to become farmers. I am wondering about transfer so that your parents may continue to live while leaving their farm as an inheritance to your other sisters. I should like to know what you expect from the government. Not necessarily in terms of getting money, but perhaps in giving you some help in terms of capital gain tax and so on.

[Leona Dargis]

Yes. I definitely think there's a need for that, and we can definitely work together and try to do that. I know our farm has done well, and we're not facing as hard times as the majority of farmers. We can transfer. It's the other farmers that—It's the whole oil field.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Do you have a quick response?

Your time is up, Monsieur Gaudet.

[Robert Saik]

Part of what needs to happen, I believe, is that we need to convince farmers that succession planning is a process and not an event. Too many people treat it as if one day they're going to wake up and they're going to make this dramatic change.

Years ago, there was a young farmer program that I took advantage of when I was 14 years old, and I started farming. That was a way for me to get started in agriculture. I don't know if that program exists, but at that time it was useful for me as a younger person.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Merci beaucoup.

Mr. Miller, the floor is yours for the next five minutes.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very much for coming here, ladies and gentlemen.

To you, Leona, I appreciate the efforts you're putting in for the young farmers of Canada. I think it's very, very important for the long-term viability of agriculture.

I have one question, and I don't want you to answer right away but think about it a bit. What is the one single best or biggest thing that government could do to help not only attract people to agriculture but to keep them there by keeping it viable?

I have three sons who aren't going to farm. They're not going to take over the farm, and that's fine. They're working. You see a lot more of that.

To the two other gentlemen—Eric, you made one comment that had to do with—and I missed a bit of what you had said and I'd like to hear what you mean by it—producer disincentives to business risk management. Could you comment a little bit on that?

There's another thing I'd like maybe all of you to comment on, which came up in our meetings yesterday in British Columbia and has come up before, about country of origin, truth in labelling, this kind of thing. There are mixed feelings, I think, in different commodity groups on whether we should do it or not. I've always, personally, as a beef producer, been a supporter of it. We haven't always had that unified approach. So I'd like to hear some comments on that.

Also, on the biofuels area, which you touched on, I think one thing that society out there today wants, generally, is that we, not just as farmers but as governments, as politicians, have to do something with the environment. We can't change that. That's what is expected today. So while there will be obstacles such as rising feed costs in the livestock industry, we have to find ways to cope with them.

You know, it's like an alcoholic. The first thing is admitting that there's a problem. We have a problem there. That will be one of the negative sides to the biofuel industry. We have to learn to cope, as industry and as government, to deal with that.

So I'll turn it back and we'll hear your comments to those questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Butters.

[Erik Butters]

Thank you, Mr. Miller.

With respect to the disincentive thing, there are aspects of the CAIS program, particularly as it originally was trotted out, that did convey disincentives to some risk management. The CAIS program in some cases would work better in times of high volatility, and people could potentially manipulate their affairs in order to attract that sort of volatility. So I think the CAIS program needs to be reviewed, and is being reviewed, in an effort to take that out.

With respect to the biofuels, I agree with you that the whole focus on the environment is a big thing now with most Canadians. With respect to biofuels, however, most of us in our sector don't see this as solving a lot of environmental problems. It is grasped onto as being a green thing, but I'm not so sure it's going to deliver the environmental goods that some of the promoters expect it to. I think we should avoid this sort of lemming scenario where we all run off the same cliff at the same time, and really be thoughtful about what we can do to be pro-environment without creating more grief than we're going to solve.

I'm sorry, what was the middle issue, the second issue you brought up?

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

It had to do with country of origin and truth in labelling.

[Erik Butters]

Yes, country-of-origin labelling is something our sector has been quite worried about. I again emphasize that we live and die by international trade. We originally saw, and I guess to some extent we still see, country-of-origin labelling as essentially a non-tariff trade barrier that will complicate it and make it more difficult for us to sell beef in the American marketplace.

It's kind of bizarre because the Americans have been very cranky for a long time about our bluetongue and anaplasmosis policies. We're working our way through that.

At the same time, if they implement country-of-origin labelling, it would restrict our ability to buy American feeders, bring them up here, feed them, and sell them back to the States either as live cattle or as beef. It's kind of a bizarre thing on their side of the border.

As it was originally worded or intended in the first rendition, they would have to segregate Canadian products from American products. It's where the catch is for us, because we're fearful that a lot of supermarkets would not want to have two different coolers, one for Canadian beef and one for American beef. It's where some of the grief can happen.

Of course, it doesn't apply to food service, at least in the original rendition. We would still be able to sell steaks or even hamburger to steakhouses or hamburger joints in the States without having these country-of-origin labelling issues.

We were really focusing on that when BSE hit. Our focus was then on BSE rather than country-of-origin labelling.

I mean, if it comes, it comes. It looks like it's going to come. The Democrats seem to be pushing it, and we're doing the best we can to be prepared for it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Does anybody else have a comment?

Mr. McBain.

[Douglas McBain]

I have a comment on the disincentive.

Part of the problem that we recognized in the CAIS program was when we went to 100% coverage. If you make the CAIS program too rich, it's a disincentive to take out crop insurance. We want to avoid the conflict of CAIS versus crop insurance. We want to encourage the farmer's individual use of crop insurance to cover his own risks and not to depend on the CAIS program for weather-related risk.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Should crop insurance be mandatory?

[Douglas McBain]

No.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Okay.

[Douglas McBain]

But you don't want to make the two programs competitive.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Ms. Dargis, do you want to comment?

[Leona Dargis]

After getting my page and a half written down, I think the single most important thing we can do to attract young farmers to our industry, to farming, and to being producers is through the media.

All we see are the negatives and BSE. There's a very negative feel out there about farming and whatnot. The University of Alberta prints a bandanna that says “Without us you'd be naked, starving, hungry, and homeless”.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Do you mean educating the urban group?

[Leona Dargis]

Yes.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Let her answer the question.