Agriculture Committee on April 25th, 2007

[Hélène Méthot]

To be honest, if sheep didn't have any wool it would have been paradise, because in Canada you only get a few cents per pound for wool. It's really hard to compete with the international competitors, because we have meat breeds here in Canada, while other countries specialize in wool breeds. It's within the fineness of the fibre and the quality of the fibre, and we can't compete on that. It's really difficult to do both side by side, so many years ago we took the meat way to produce sheep.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

We have a woollen mill in New Brunswick called Briggs and Little Woolen Mills, one of the last remaining in Canada. I hope some of your people are taking advantage of that.

Also, Mr. Chair, I've run out of time, but I guess the wildlife aspect is very significant in many provinces, including Quebec, which I drive through quite often. In my home province it's not only geese, but also deer, bear, and other animals that really cost farmers a lot of money. Perhaps we could follow up with someone else on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

There's still a little bit of time.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

We still have a little bit of time, do we?

Maybe with the snow geese in particular, Hervé, you speak of what it's costing your industry or our industry. How significant is it in Quebec? Can you put a dollar value on it, just with the geese alone that I see along La Pocatière and all along the shore of the St. Lawrence?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Dancause.

[Hervé Dancause]

I don't know whether that figure appears in my file. Mr. Desjardins may have more information on that subject.

[Louis Desjardins]

I couldn't give you a precise figure. The geese have been here for a very long time; so we are pioneers. We've done a lot of work to feed them, among other things. When we started working with the owners of those geese, the Canadian government, I believe, we were told that what they left behind compensated for what they ate. That was nothing to be proud of. We had crop insurance, but it was very costly. We thought we would get involved in scaring. Here we're talking about a team of men who scare the geese away. If I walk across your lawn 10 times, there probably won't be any serious effects, but if I walk across it a million times, that will probably leave tracks. In fact, there'll be nothing left.

In Montmagny, there's an event called the Snow Goose Festival. There are protected areas where producers have agreed to let the geese eat, which is to the festival's advantage.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

With this, we have, federally, the migratory game licence, for which you put money in. Can you get any money back? That's what I'm wondering.

[Louis Desjardins]

I think that saves between $300,000 and $500,000 on crop insurance. That insurance doesn't compensate us for all damage. Earlier you asked me how much it cost. The director tells us that it's nearly $1 million.

As for the other question, I didn't understand it.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You're out of time. Sorry, Mr. Hubbard.

Mr. Crête.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for your presentation. You are the first ones who have really given us a profile of your agriculture. For your information, I would point out for committee members that there was a federal experimental farm here. It was closed in 1993 or 1994. The community took it in hand, both the farmers and other stakeholders.

On that subject, I'd like you to give me an idea of the size of the research and development financing guarantee. Perhaps you can give us some details on the sheep breeding question. You talked about the greater snow goose, but that's another program, even though it has a research and development aspect.

Tell me about the size of that funding for the future and the fact that it must be clear that it covers a five- or 10-year period so as to ensure security and make it possible to continue developing—

[Charles Proulx]

With your permission, I'm going to say a few words. I wouldn't want to take Ms. Méthot's place. With regard to emerging products, it's all well and good to produce them, but you still have to manage to extend the period where the consumer has access to them. That shouldn't be limited to harvest time in May. We need a place where there are researchers and facilities enabling producers to process these products and to make sure they get onto consumers' plates. I can't do that on my farm. As agricultural producers, we wouldn't want the biofood development centre to have that role.

Various research projects are being carried out, on hog production among other things, new products, organic meats and so on. These are mainly emerging products. We need this centre in order to promote them.

[Madam Hélène Méthot]

One of the problems that I think affects not only sheep production is that consumer expectations and demand are changing at a very rapid pace. Some producers that have herds have been following specific objectives for 10 years. However, consumers can tell them from one day to the next that they want a different product.

If we let producers adjust to these new demands on their own, the process will be much too long. We're going to lose market share because competitors are investing extraordinary amounts in research and development, specifically in order to target these markets and to adapt their products.

It's really essential to support the evolution of agricultural production in Canada through research and development in order to ensure that producers are always up to date, that their products are up to date and consistent with consumer requirements when they are expressed, not three years later.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you. I'd like to address another question. Mr. Desjardins or Mr. Dancause may be more able to respond. Explain to the committee about the investment tax credit in the riding.

The investment tax credit applies to Quebec. Half of my riding is entitled to it and the other half isn't. Explain to me the situation of farmers with regard to this problem.

[Louis Desjardins]

I've always considered myself lucky. Where I come from, I'm not an agricultural have-not. I live very close to the shore. I have access to the best of both worlds. There used to be an incentive covering product transportation costs to Montreal. When it was abolished, we were told that we would be entitled to a 10% credit. That's a system that works as follows.

Once I've completed my income tax return, like everyone, if I owe the federal government $5,000, I write a cheque for that amount, then I look at what I've invested during the year. If I bought a tractor for $100,000, I'm entitled to 10% of that amount, so $10,000. Out of that $10,000, 60% may be paid to me in cash. It can all be deducted from my tax payable. If I don't need it, a portion can come back to me personally.

It's quite funny to see industries regularly setting up just on the other side of the line so that they can qualify for these tax credits. I've always thought that they were reserved for Kamouraska County. When the federal government expanded our riding, it didn't expand access to those measures accordingly, and that's unfortunate. It should have done so. When it merged our region with L'Islet, it should have granted the people in L'Islet the same credit. We are far from the major centres. We incur losses in transportation and many other areas, but at least we have that benefit. I've always told my friend who lives in L'Islet, on Range 26, that I wouldn't trade my land for his. However, I've always said that those people should also receive that benefit.

With Mr. Crête, I believe, we looked at the possibility of applying this measure to all of Kamouraska County, Rivière-du-Loup, Lévis, Montmagny and so on.

I don't know whether that answers your question.

[Paul Crête, Bloc, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

It lets us understand that there are two different treatments for citizens within the same riding: some are entitled to the tax credit, others aren't.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

The next speech should be brief.

[Charles Proulx]

To answer Mr. Crête's first question [Technical difficulties - Editor] and to explain that there are achievable programs. As for the investment tax credit, I don't have any luck: I'm on the other side of the fence and consequently am not entitled to it. The agricultural sector is less favoured in the RCM of L'Islet than in Kamouraska, and yet we're not entitled to that measure. It should be emphasized that 10% is significant for each of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Merci.

Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Méthot and gentlemen, thanks very much for being here.

It's great to be in Mr. Crête's riding. For years I used to come down here every October to buy cattle. I haven't been here since 1999, so it's great to be back.

Ms. Méthot, you talked about the funding of research, and what have you, and the lack of funding. There were some cancellations. Would you be suggesting or favour having one level of funding as far as the federal government is concerned? Should the federal government take up and fund all research, or should it work together with the provinces on that? Have you any comments towards that?

[Hélène Méthot]

I think that through CDAQ, the Province of Quebec already works in part with Agriculture Canada, because they are directing those funds towards our specific provincial needs.

However, regarding R and D on sheep, at CEPOQ we have about 35% of our income coming from MAPAQ, that is, funding from our provincial government, and about 15% from the producers. We have about another one-third of our budget coming from specific R and D projects—for instance, CDAQ funding for a specific project.

Agriculture Canada is not involved in that funding. We see provincial government funding, and provincial funding for specific programs for various R and D projects. So maybe there would be a place for Agriculture Canada to work beside those other partners in that specific field.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Here's another question, just out of curiosity and for my education. You talked about the quality of wool, when Mr. Hubbard was asking a question. Does our northern climate have anything to do with the quality of the wool?

[Hélène Méthot]

It has indirectly, because here we mostly keep the sheep in the barn. That is a problem, because you use straw and you use la ripe de bois—wood chips. Those things get into the wool and are really bad when transforming the product.

But the main problem with it is really the quality of the wool that we have here. It is fine for making insulation pads, but it's not appropriate for clothing.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

I was curious, because my riding is the largest sheep and beef-producing riding in Ontario.

Mr. Proulx, I believe it was you who talked earlier about the spreading of manure and the environmental impact work that farmers have to go through. The way I see it, and I'd like to hear your comments on it, is that when it comes time for agriculture producers, in no matter what sector, to protect the environment—and I think farmers in general are very good stewards of the land and the environment—it seems to me that it's for the public good.

Do you agree—and anyone else can comment on this—that the public basically should be helping to fund that kind of good? We're protecting the water—everything.

Could we hear some comments concerning that? Did you understand the question?

[Charles Proulx]

Forty years ago, the public took part in certain projects. For example, there was an extensive waterways digging campaign in Quebec to drain lands. The public funded the project because it was subsidized by the Government of Quebec. It was the public that did it, indirectly, but it was nevertheless the public. It's impossible for me to go and ask my neighbour to give me money because I have to protect the river banks; that has to be done collectively. As regards the environment, the Fédération de l'UPA de la Côte-du-Sud alone has already invested $1.9 million for protection purposes.

Earlier you asked a question concerning research. We need a leader who will let us invest in this area and who will serve as a lever to secure more funding. If you invest 30% of the budget in research, that 30% will be multiplied two or three times. That's what's important. It's already been said: it isn't just up to farmers to pay. Right now, it's only the farmers who are paying the environmental bill. Protecting water is a collective duty; it's an asset that serves everyone. It isn't the farmers who go fishing most often; it's the average man and woman. We need everyone to protect this resource.