Agriculture Committee on May 1st, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Does anybody want to respond to that?

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

It may be difficult to answer, but somewhere there must be a book that tells us how many there are.

If we go around the country, all the farm groups seem to be short of money. They think the government is good, but there's never quite enough to meet the vision of the needs they seem to have.

Along with that, whether or not it's this minister or the previous two or three ministers, every minister says this is the greatest amount of money they've ever put into the agricultural community.

Mr. Chair, it's only a yes or no answer, but can anyone provide this committee with an answer?

The big problem is that they allocate money, but it never seems to get there. I noticed even the minister today said he'd put so much money on the table. But does it ever leave the table to get to the farm?

Who among all the assistant deputies has the closest connection with the farm community in approving the cheques that go out?

Nada, is it you? I don't want to put you on the spot, but last year how much money did you write in cheques to the farmers of Canada? What's the ballpark figure?

[Nada Semaan]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your question.

When in terms of last year, the fiscal year or the calendar year?

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

In the government, we operate from April until the end of March. How much money went out in the year 2006-2007?

[Nada Semaan]

Actually, in CAIS alone, over $1.1 billion went out. Production insurance was over $500 million. For grains and oilseeds, from the calendar year of April to April and not before that, it was over $350 million. The other part of the $755 million went out earlier in the previous year. For CITI payments as of April 2 of this year, over $640 million went out. The options program, as the minister identified, was over $141 million. The farm income payment program, the leftover from that program, was almost $3 million.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

I only have five minutes, but what does it add up to? How much money went directly to farmers?

[Nada Semaan]

Directly, in terms of direct payments out of these programs, it was a little under $3 billion.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Was any money sitting there that never went out on the basis of the budget for that year?

[Nada Semaan]

CAIS and production insurance are demand-driven programs. For example, the budget for BRM is $1.1 million. Every year CAIS has exceeded its budget.

Production insurance has had a steady increase in terms of indemnities paid out to it. The grains and oilseeds payment actually paid out $754.2 million of the $755 million. There's very little left and it is still required for some appeals that are currently taking place.

For the CITI payment, we are now in the middle of paying for 2005, and we expect all payments to be out on that one.

On the options program, as the minister had identified, we expected to spend about $170 million. We spent $141 million. This was based on the number of applications we received and those that qualified.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

You referred back to some money that was somehow planned for 2005.

When I look at the program activities in terms of the source being the Agriculture and Agri-Food report on plans and priorities, it seems that about $1 billion less is planned for 2008-2009 as opposed to 2007-2008. The figure then gets even smaller for 2009-2010.

Mr. Chair, could we have someone give an answer to this committee on how much money the Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food actually paid out over the last 10-year period, since 1996 or 1997 until the present?

As I said, every minister says there's a lot of money going out. The farm community certainly appreciates it. But when we travel across the country, there's always the question about where the money is.

In effect, you're saying some of the money that was planned back in 2005 is only getting out now. Is that what I heard? You referred to one program where they had apparently set aside money in 2005 and it's just been paid out now. Is that correct?

[Nada Semaan]

I'm not aware which program you're referring to. I'm sorry.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

How far does the money lag behind the programs? I guess that's what I'm asking. How far does the money lag behind, from the time the minister announces until it eventually gets out to the farm community?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Hubbard, you're out of time, so let's have just a response to that final question, please.

[Nada Semaan]

As an example, on the day the options program was announced, the application forms were on the Internet and we actually received our very first application, and within five days we had a payment for the options, as one example. That was a good news story.

The cost of production program was just announced today, and we expect payments to start flowing in June. We are moving on this as quickly as possible.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Monsieur Bellavance, you have the last questions before the bells ring.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Who looks after the Canadian Farm Families Options Program? You do? Okay.

It seems that this program was started without the provinces and farmers being consulted first. Is that right?

[Nada Semaan]

A number of analyses were done before that program was created. People in the agricultural sector told us that it was difficult for them to use the renewal programs without getting funds to manage their businesses. This program was created in response to requests from the industry. Because it was already provided for in the budget, we had to wait for the budget to be tabled before announcing it.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

You say there was no consultation. I can assure you that the Quebec Minister of Agriculture at the time was very surprised when this program was announced. Today we see that the program is going to be terminated, again with no consultation.

The rules have been changed. I am seeing a lot of ad hocery in the management of this program. I have the impression that when the program was started what they had in mind was wanting to help the poorest producers. The reaction was that this was not what had been asked for. Still, no one can refuse $500 million dollars going to the poorest producers.

According to your figures, about $140 million was spent last year under the Canadian Farm Families Options Program. I would like to know how much money you plan to spend this year. Is the $500 million allocated to this program really going to be spent?

[Nada Semaan]

First, this program is a federal initiative, so the provinces make no financial contribution to it. However, the Government of Quebec was consulted because that is who manages the renewal program. It also had to be asked to provide funds for the direct option.

This program is a two-year pilot project. It is in its second year. When the program started, we thought there were 17,000 producers, but in reality there were 14,000, a significant drop for evaluation purposes. The fact that some people are participating in the program in the second year will mean that we can do a complete analysis and get information to use for the future agricultural framework.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You may ask one final short question.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

Has the $500 million been spent?

[Nada Semaan]

No, as the minister has said, it is now a little over $300 million. There'll be $203 million from the options program that will be redirected to other priorities in the agricultural sector.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Miller will have the last turn in the fourth round, for the Conservatives.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to everyone here for being here today.

I'll follow up a little on what the minister was talking about. He talked about some of the changes in the CAIS program after the discussions with the provinces.

One thing he didn't clarify, unless I missed it, was the timing of it. How soon do we expect most of those changes to take place, Ms. Semaan?

[Nada Semaan]

Should we get direction from the federal-provincial ministers to move with it in June, we are hoping the producer savings accounts program can be ready by 2008. However, the $600 million that the government announced would go out sooner than that, so that we can kickstart the program faster.

Speaking on the margin-based program, as the changes have been identified we have been incorporating as many as possible. As you know, the inventory evaluation payments have gone up, but also, the changes have already occurred for the new margin-based program, so that it is done in P1, P2. Negative margin for 2006 was already implemented.

We are looking at a number of changes, such as structural changes, and as they come in, we're looking at them potentially for 2007. So we are looking at implementing them in 2008 for the 2007 program year.

As to the enhancements to production insurance, for those programs, as the minister said, a number of provinces have taken the frameworks that were developed over the summer quite aggressively. In Ontario alone, over 45 crops are being reviewed now, in pilot projects across Ontario. For livestock insurance, Nova Scotia and Quebec are looking at programs even potentially in 2007, but in 2008 for sure, and there are a number of other programs that are being looked at for 2008.

We have funded and have done studies for both poultry and swine for production insurance as well. The swine report is coming out this year, and we're hoping to do it fairly shortly.

Finally, there's the disaster framework. We have authorities in place for the federal government to react very quickly, should a disaster situation happen. A the minister said, we got agreement for the framework; it's the funding that is still being discussed. We are hoping that will be resolved in June. At that point, it will be available immediately, if a disaster situation happens.