Agriculture Committee on Nov. 14th, 2007

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

On the proposed addition, so from the words “In the case of previously scheduled meetings taking place outside the Parliamentary Precinct”, I'd like someone to explain to me in what time and situation we would be required to do things any other way when outside the Parliament Precinct.

Perhaps they're referring to witnesses having to travel, which was the case in our last session's tour, and perhaps they're afraid the witnesses will be insulted because, for example, some members are absent. As a member of this committee, I've never been in a situation where there wasn't quorum, for example. Committee members are very disciplined. And that's why I don't think this addition is necessary.

When the committee travels, I want our way of doing things to be exactly the same as it is in Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We actually need to put a motion on the floor first before we can all start discussion.

So does somebody want to...?

Larry, are you moving the reduced quorum motion?

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

In our travelling—

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Are you moving the reduced quorum motion? We have to get a motion on the floor first before we can have debate.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Certainly, yes. I'll move it to get it out there for discussion.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Okay, and André already made his comments on it.

Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

What I was going to say, André, when we were touring back in the spring, and you were on that, there was one meeting one morning where one of the members of the travelling group was late for that meeting.

Now, it ended up we still had a quorum and we continued on, but in the event that more than that number ever happened.... Basically, you have your agenda set up with witnesses coming into those. If you didn't have a quorum, without this change, you could get yourself in a spot where your witnesses are sitting there and you can't proceed until somebody.... So to me it's a safeguard to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

For the sake of reference, I know of a case where the finance committee was travelling—this was a few years back—but the entire government at that time wasn't even at the meeting, they didn't have quorum, and despite that fact they still took evidence, even though it was against the standing orders. They did receive evidence, and I believe it ended up that one of the NDP members had to chair that meeting in Winnipeg.

Mr. St. Amand.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

I suppose I approach this, Mr. Chair, with “If it ain't broke, don't fix it”. There may be an antiquated example of what you're talking about, and Larry has a near miss, but, frankly, I think the reduced quorum, as it always has been, is sufficient; that is, three members present, including one member of the opposition. Not that it would ever happen, but if I may, if all members of the government side, whatever the party in power, decided or were not able to make it, then the workings of the committee would be stalled because nobody from the government was present. I think the way it always has been is the route to proceed with, so I would speak against the revised motion of Mr. Miller.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

As a point of fact, before I let Mr. Roy speak, the last motion was five members for this committee: that the chair be authorized to hold meetings, receive and publish evidence, provided that at least five members are present. We had five. The motion was five for the last session. Even though the one presented here was three, that was put out as routine motions, opening a session, but as a committee we had five. We did get awful close when we were travelling. One day we were right at five.

I have Mr. Roy, Mr. Lauzon, Mr. Anderson, and then Mr. Hubbard.

[Jean-Yves Roy, Bloc, Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think that the rule as it stands in other committees is to have three people. The addition clearly violates the Standing Orders. If we were to adopt this motion, two parallel committees could then sit in the same city. The government members would sit in one room, and the opposition members in another.

Basically, you're saying in the motion that even if the government members aren't present the committee can still sit. The opposite would also be true. In other words, should the opposition members be absent the committee would also be able to sit. The problem is with the way the motion is worded. It doesn't make any sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I'm not sure why we'd want to do that.

A point of order, Mr. Hubbard.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

We have two documents in front of us. I assumed that the one page one was the one we used last year, but you said it wasn't.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

It's not exactly to the motions that we actually carried from the minutes.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Not exactly.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Not 100%.

The only change was where it said “at least three” on the reduced quorum; it actually should be “at least five”.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

The old one said “at least five”.

May I ask further, who presented this one? Where did it come from?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

This is coming from the government.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Mr. Anderson, as parliamentary secretary, has presented this one. And this is the one that the clerk has drawn up, is it?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

One is standard and the other one is what we're suggesting as a possibility in order to make sure that we don't run into any problems, so that procedure and the process for the committee is going to be as easy as possible.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

On the same point--

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

I've got Mr.--

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

Can't I ask a further point of order?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Make sure it's a point of order and not a matter of debate.

[Charles Hubbard, Liberal, Miramichi, NB]

The one dealing with the subcommittee, many committees I've been on have always said that the parliamentary secretary--