Agriculture Committee on Feb. 12th, 2008

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Even though it has been 70 days?

[Gordon Quaiattini]

Our position is we are happy the bill is before this committee right now. We would encourage the committee to conclude its hearings and hear from as diverse a stakeholder cross-section that they require. When you look at the date of January 1, 2010, and the typical timeframe for government regulation to come into effect, its typically that 18- to 24-month timeframe. So count backwards from January 2010 and we are in that timeframe right now.

So the faster we can get legislative authority granted to Environment Canada, that then allows for the rest of the regulatory development process to continue so there is no slippage in that January 1 date.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Do you think 70 days is a normal pace?

[Gordon Quaiattini]

Listen, government can move faster, government can move slower. The power, quite frankly, is in the hands of this committee right now. You can conclude this consideration of the bill very quickly right now, send it back to the House, and get it to the Senate.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

That is my second question. There are so many people who are in favour of this, with all due respect to our representative from the National Farmers Union. It seems like this committee is taking up an enormous period of time, considering the huge backlog we have on other crisis issues. Is there any reason this cannot be expedited?

[Brian Chorney]

I would hope not. We really encourage quick passage and taking it back to....

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

None of you has mentioned any particular concerns or something that would stop this. You're more or less in a hurry.

[Richard Phillips]

I would actually say that if you were to send the signal that you were stalling or delaying.... I'm an investor in EnSask, and we're out there trying to raise money from shareholders. If there were a splash of cold water put on from the government right now, I think it would make it very hard for us to continue fundraising for our producer-owned facilities.

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

I'll share the remaining time with the honourable member from Brant.

[Lloyd St. Amand, Liberal, Brant, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I'd like to thank my always cooperative colleague, Mr. Boshcoff.

A comment from Mr. Sigurdson some 15 or 20 minutes ago triggered looks of virtual disbelief on the part of you, Mr. Friesen, and you, Mr. Haig, about the $30 subsidy. You've since commented, Mr. Friesen.

So if I may, Mr. Haig, I'll ask you to just perhaps now tell us what you were going to say. As you may know, I had an opportunity to work with an entity known as Integrated Grain Processors Co-op, and they were ultimately successful in getting funding from different levels of government and are well on their way. It's been a terrific good news story.

Mr. Haig, could you share your belief with respect to the issue of subsidies that—

[Tim Haig]

I'm really happy to. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity to get to this.

As I was saying before, what the market really needs is for the commodity at the front end of this to decouple from the commodity at the back end. But in the meantime, we need subsidies, competitive with those in the States and other jurisdictions, which this Parliament is putting into place. We need the opportunity to get to that decoupling aspect of things.

I don't understand whatever statistics we have, but we have in place, coming through with ecoENERGY, a competitive market wherein we believe we can build the capacity we require to get to the decoupling situation that this bill will allow us to get to, and perhaps hopefully go a bit further.

As a part owner and operator of the largest biodiesel facility in Canada, I don't get these numbers. I'm sorry, I can't comment. It was just striking how large and rather obscure they are, judging from my balance sheet.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Friesen, do you want to comment on that?

[Bob Friesen]

I already commented earlier, thanks.

[Kenneth Sigurdson]

I do, because I'm having difficulty figuring out what I said that is in dispute here. In Manitoba, there's a 30¢-per-litre subsidy on ethanol; it's commonly known. On an energy equivalent basis, that works out to about a 45¢-per-litre subsidy. I didn't make any comments about biodiesel in terms of a subsidy level.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Friesen, quickly, as the time has run out.

[Bob Friesen]

I have a comment. We would consider it to be part of a public goods and services initiative if we could get the Canadian public to help subsidize, to some extent, the biofuel industry. It's a contribution to the environment and it's a contribution to agriculture, so it's a win-win for the Canadian public—for farmers and for everybody involved.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

I understand Mr. Storseth and Mr. Lauzon want to split their time.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Storseth has a good question, I understand.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I think it's important to make a comment and set the record straight on something Mr. Easter seemed to get so much joy out of.

The fact of the matter is that 10 to 15 years ago in Alberta, the oil sands were considered a dream. They were considered too expensive, too energy inefficient, and something we would never see as a relevant source of energy or oil in our country or in our world. Today, with the high price of oil, the money that governments at both the federal and provincial levels have put into it has created a very economically viable industry that creates roughly 10% of Canada's GDP.

Some 16% of oil sands-related jobs are not in Alberta; they are actually in Ontario. Since 2004 alone, over $102 billion worth of economic activity in Ontario alone has been generated from the oil sands in Alberta.

Mr. Chair, if the industry we are talking about helping to create today can bring forth one iota of the change the oil sands have brought to our country, to rural Canada, then I think it behooves us to support it and continue to move it forward every step we can.

I think the comments Mr. Boshcoff has made about the government's delaying this and trying to ramp up fears on this issue are very dangerous. What you are doing is exactly what these gentlemen have asked you not to do, and that is to—

[Ken Boshcoff, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman, I just outlined the 70-day delay. That was pretty straightforward.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

It wasn't 70 sitting days.

Mr. Storseth.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

The last thing we want to do is throw cold water on this initiative. The producers in my area and the producers of western Canada see this as a light at the end of the tunnel.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I'll pass my time on to Mr. Lauzon.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You have just over three minutes left.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Mr. Easter said something...and I think you people would like to see this go even further than the 2% and 5%. If we can ever get this legislation passed, then it will give the Minister of the Environment the opportunity to in fact wrap it up as needed.

The other thing is we try to put farmers first. Our agriculture minister wants to put farmers first. We have a chance here for grains and oilseeds farmers to diversify, to get another market, and we seem, like my colleague said, to be putting some cold water on this. What's wrong with giving the farmers another option to sell their grain?

All of you supposedly are in the industry. I can't see, for the life of me, why we don't think this is the best thing since sliced bread. This is a chance for diversification. It is a chance for new opportunities. It is the greatest thing, as I said, since sliced bread.

Mr. Boshcoff said something about 70 days. I can tell you, Mr. Chair, we heard enough from the industry, and we should go to clause-by-clause even if it requires extra meetings. Let's get this done. We can hear from the industry that it has to get done. We want to get it done. The opposition wants to get it done. What do you say we get it done right now?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

We have eight minutes.