Agriculture Committee on March 13th, 2008

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I don't know whether this is a question you could answer. As a former producer, now that you've accepted your new position and you've moved to Winnipeg, why do you think the research the Canadian Grain Commission does is so valuable for all Canadian farmers?

[Elwin Hermanson]

Well, because we are in the marketplace and we are fighting for market share for our product. Canada needs to meet its own domestic requirements, and we need to export product in a world where there are other countries trying to sell to the same customers. We have to have the best product with the best qualities. We have to communicate that to customers so we can bring the highest returns to producers and increase market share if and when possible. We have been doing that and we need to continue to do that, because it impacts the bottom line of producers and it determines to a large degree whether or not the industry is profitable.

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Do I have much time, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

You have a minute.

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

With the whole input cost problems that Canadian farmers are having right now, I think grain research and that part of the Canadian Grain Commission is so important to Canadian producers. Would you agree?

[Elwin Hermanson]

I would agree with that. I would also agree that it fits in very nicely with our overall mandate to provide grain quality assurance for our customers, both Canadians and our customers abroad. It is an integral component of what we do. It's equally important to the grading work we do, the setting of standards we do, the arbitration work, the licensing, and our role in registering varieties. It's all very important work, but do not underestimate the importance of research in that equation.

[Carol Skelton, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Thank you.

Madam Thi Lac.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Hermanson. I have several questions to ask. I would like to ask first about the memo that was sent by the manager of the Canadian Grains Commission on December 21 of last year. This letter stated that if you identify yourself as an employee of the CGC in a letter to the editor and criticize the policy of the government regarding the commission, this could cause a perception that your views on government policy are biased and that you are unable to implement the government's policy in an impartial way.

When you accepted your appointment on the following January 21, this means that you agreed to subject yourself to this gag order.

[Elwin Hermanson]

Thank you for the question.

Obviously I disagree with the word “gag”. It was definitely not a gag order. That is a term that has been used by the media here in Parliament, I understand, but it is certainly not an accurate description of what occurred, as far as the commission is concerned.

What occurred was that employees of the Canadian Grain Commission contacted the management to ask to what degree they could express opinion and be involved politically in regard to this issue, where in fact there could be some job loss. The response was according to the book, according to the Values and Ethics Code, in line with the Supreme Court of Canada decision that they should be able—

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

I appreciate that, but you yourself violated that rule on February 7, after your appointment, when you wrote that as chief commissioner of the CGC you strongly supported this legislation and reiterated the commitment of this organization to provide value to producers.

By making that statement, don't you think that you showed a certain lack of restraint contrary to your duty to act in an impartial fashion?

[Elwin Hermanson]

No, absolutely not, Mr. Chair. We were being responsible in leadership in following the Values and Ethics Code that we are charged to follow. We were acting prudently, in line with the ruling of the Supreme Court of Canada. To do otherwise would have been irresponsible.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

In your preliminary remarks you stated that “[...] public servants are free to express their views about the amendments to their members of Parliament so long as they do not publicly criticize the government.“

Some countries have such a policy but these are dictatorships. I was very surprised to hear that statement this morning. I am flabbergasted.

Do you consider yourself as political staff or as a servant of the State?

[Elwin Hermanson]

My position is called the deputy head. I'm the chief commissioner of the Canadian Grain Commission. That is a public service position, and it is in that light that I undertake my duties and fulfill my role.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Right now, I am not questioning your qualifications but your judgment. You might well say that you did not impose a gag order to your staff, but you make statements that run contrary to the memo that you sent to them. This is interference. You mix up two mandates: a political mandate and a public service mandate.

[Elwin Hermanson]

No.

Mr. Chair, that is not the case whatsoever. I have stayed entirely out of the political component of this issue. Even in the op-ed piece I didn't refer to political parties. I referred once to the minister, once to the House of Commons, but primarily stayed with responsibilities of the Canadian Grain Commission. The only reason I mentioned the minister and the House of Commons was because the bill had been introduced in the House of Commons with the memo, which again, I would remind members, was issued before I assumed my responsibility. I discussed this with senior management after my arrival. I am pleased, not that there's an issue but that they handled it correctly, that they were responsible, that their responses were within the guidelines they are required to act on.

I think the issue has been—

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Hermanson, the role of a senior official...

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Your time has expired. I'm sorry.

Mr. Storseth, the floor is yours.

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

This is too bad because I had an excellent question.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Actually, I think it's Mr. Miller.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to the witness for coming here today.

Mr. Hermanson, after reading your resumé and hearing some of the questioning around the table, there's no doubt in my mind about your qualifications. The only argument that somebody would give, and certainly not a valid one, is anything based on partisanship. I think that argument will go on forever. When somebody gets a role such as what you have ahead of you here, that argument will always come from the opposition people, if they think so. So that's irrelevant in the whole thing.

The fact that you have some political experience and the fact that you have been involved in agriculture actually hits home very closely. I married my good wife in 1975 and started farming full time, albeit with my father, for a number of years. So I can relate to that, and I've been through a lot of the same experiences.

In your role here, Mr. Hermanson, one of the things I'd like to hear you talk about is that things have changed and are changing still, as we speak, in the grain industry, and through the ethanol and biofuels industry, and through some of the recent trade agreements that have been reached by this government and some that are still being negotiated, which definitely are going to benefit agriculture as much or more than any other sector of Canadian business. I'd like to hear your ideas on how you're going to use your position here and direct the grain industry to deal with those.

I think another one that's really positive is that Canadian farmers, especially western farmers, have made it quite clear how happy they are to be able to have a choice in barley sales. There could possibly be a large increase in barley acreage across the country.

So I'd like to hear you speak a bit about those three things, the challenges and how your role will help direct them and help the industry come out of it in the best shape at the end.

[Elwin Hermanson]

Thank you for the question.

First of all, the agriculture sector is a large one, and the Canadian Grain Commission deals with the grains component of that sector. Whatever we do has to be within the mandate of the Canada Grain Act, either the current one or future acts as determined by Parliament. So anything I do, anything the commissioners do, anything the Grain Commission does has to be under the auspices of the Canada Grain Act. I want to make that very clear.

That said, under the Canada Grain Act as it currently exists and as it would exist under Bill C-39, we are a player in the registering of new varieties to meet the challenges of current and future market opportunities. You mentioned biofuels. There are also feed grains, agronomic principles, and disease resistance. The work we do at the Canada Grain Commission equips producers or gives producers the seed, if I can be really blunt, to help them prosper in the agriculture economy that they are in and will face into the future.

I consider that role to be very important. Anything to do with food I think is incredibly important, because food is such a critical ingredient that, as Canadians, we take much too much for granted. The Canadian Grain Commission is one of the factors that ensure quality of food. The CFIA is another, and Health Canada is another. But we have our niche; we have our role to play in ensuring the safety of grains. All this is for the benefit of producers.

There is a change in agriculture. Back when I started farming, which I guess was about the same time as you did, sir, they were still coopering boxcars. Now we're moving to IP, where a lot of our grain is moving through containers, which provides some challenges for the Grain Commission. Under the existing act, we're set up to handle carloads of grain, and not so much containers.

So these are challenges of the future that the Grain Commission has to stay on top of, and we have to function within the Canada Grain Act to serve producers, serve the grain industry, and serve Canadians in such a way that this industry prospers and that the farm sector is a healthy one.

[Larry Miller, Conservative, Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON]

You briefly mentioned CFIA, Mr. Hermanson. Do you see anything in the immediate future in working with CFIA that could benefit the grain industry? Do you have any comments on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, James Bezan]

Mr. Hermanson, I'll ask that you keep your response very brief.

[Elwin Hermanson]

Very briefly, we are currently cooperating with the CFIA. We're accredited to do some work on their behalf, and I think that provides a benefit to producers.