Evidence of meeting #30 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was product.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Blake Johnston  Vice-President of Government Affairs, Food and Consumer Products of Canada
Larry McIntosh  Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Produce Marketing Association
Jill Hobbs  Professor and Department Head, Department of Bioresource Policy, Business and Economics, University of Saskatchewan
Anne Fowlie  Executive Vice-President, Canadian Horticultural Council
Dan Dempster  President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association

10:50 a.m.

Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Produce Marketing Association

Larry McIntosh

For fresh produce labelling, I think the regulations are in place now. It's fairly straightforward. I think it really comes down to enforcement of the regulations that we have in place today, whether that be packaging that doesn't have the proper information on it or whatever the case may be.

The bigger enforcement issue for our industry is the people who are deliberately bringing in carrots from China. We certainly see a lot of that in Canada. A lot of the stuff from the United States gets rejected and ends up in our backyard at very reduced prices. Somebody can make a lot of money packaging Chinese carrots--using that as an example--in Canadian packaging.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK

So that's an enforcement issue.

10:50 a.m.

Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Produce Marketing Association

Larry McIntosh

Absolutely it's an enforcement issue. Things are on the books now, but somebody needs to be able to enforce that to protect the consumer.

May 1st, 2008 / 10:50 a.m.

Dan Dempster President, Canadian Produce Marketing Association

I'm of the view that some of our enforcement mechanisms perhaps don't go far enough. I'm rather right-wing on some of this stuff, but some of the issues.... I think the largest fine that I'm aware of for people fraudulently repackaging product was about $5,000. Well, ostensibly $5,000 may be a drop in the bucket.

Every importer of fresh fruits and vegetables must be either licensed with CFIA or a member of the Dispute Resolution Corporation. Mr. Easter would know a little bit from our discussions on the DRC. Clearly there's a vehicle there and an enforcement tool. The single, most threatening thing you can do to anyone is take away their right to do business--or, as I would say, take away their right to defraud the public.

So I think there are things out there. Whether we have the strong legislative base that allows us to do that...and maybe that's one of the things we need to do.

On the whole labelling issue, I understand the various and sundry instances. This is a really complicated issue. I think packaging and labelling legislation goes back to the early seventies. It was designed when the Canadian Food Inspection Agency, when it was part of Agriculture Canada, was dealing with basically quality-type issues. We've added food safety to their mandate. We've added all of these other wonderful things that have skyrocketed. Look at the volume of global trade. They're trying to manage all that.

I think we have to be very cognizant, as we move forward, of what we're asking for from a regulatory agency and their ability to do it. I see it not just with this issue but with a lot of things in this town. Policy that is intended for public benefit but that can't be properly enforced is not good policy.

10:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Mr. Atamanenko.

10:50 a.m.

NDP

Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC

We are coming to the end of our discussions on this. Most people, everybody I've talked to, find it bizarre that “Product of Canada” means 51% of the cost.... People on the street think it's crazy.

As we look at the report, do you think we have to take out this 51% of production costs and substitute a percentage of the actual content? We had a recommendation at committee—I believe it was 51% of content. So that's my first question, as we come to the close of this debate.

The other one is this. We have talked about voluntary and compulsory. You mentioned GM labelling. We know there has been a voluntary GM labelling law in force since 2004 and nobody's really taken us up on it. If it's compulsory, should there be an incentive for industry to do this? You get a law in place and there has to be some kind of help, whether it is subsidies or something. That's the second question.

I did not realize that in Saskatchewan, for example, it is not necessary to label where apples are from. I always assumed, when I was in a store, that the apples were a product of B.C., Ontario, or something. I didn't realize that it wasn't right across the country. I would like a comment on that.

Finally, we should address the whole idea of food sovereignty, food security. Should we be promoting “Canadian” to ensure that we support our local agriculture?

10:55 a.m.

Vice-President of Government Affairs, Food and Consumer Products of Canada

Blake Johnston

On your first question about the 51%, the debate comes down to content versus value. The members of this committee have heard from a number of agriculture producer groups that think it should be content. A lot of folks spend a lot of time and money building state-of-the-art, clean factories. We comply with 442 pieces of legislation, federally. The people who spend that amount of money making sure the product ends up safe and healthy probably think it should be based on value.

When you talk to consumers and say it's based on the value of the product, they shake their heads and think it's hard to believe. Perhaps this is due to a failing of government and my industry to educate the consumer about value. That's debatable. But from our perspective, it should stay on value. You might want to raise the number, but there should be something that allows processors to tell the story of the value they add.

Secondly, on your point about GMO labelling, there are two things. My understanding is that the government's organic labelling standards are going to come into force in November of this year, approximately six months from now. This will allow consumers to decide if they want to buy GMO food or not, even though there is no health or safety reason for their choice.

The GMO labelling standard that you referred to was, I believe, put in place in 2004. That was a General Standards Board process that took a long time. I would ask the question and reverse the onus.

Professor Hobbs talked about market forces. He said there would be a benefit to processors to put “Made in Canada” on a product, because the market would somehow buy that. I would throw the question back at you: if consumers are clamouring to know how to avoid GMOs, why is there such a small uptake among processors for that voluntary label? We're certainly not hearing that this is a major issue for producers. As for GMOs, I think most of the members of this committee realize that Canadian farmers are massively adopting the technology. It's pervasive in production of our staple commodities as well as in the grocery store. So we would oppose efforts to raise that.

We agree with Professor Hobbs' assertion that labelling should reflect health and safety rather than things that could frighten the consumer.

Finally, should we be promoting agriculture? That's not representing farmers. Our sector's opinion is not as important on this point, but obviously we support Canadian agriculture. We buy 43% of the production.

With respect to our efforts to try to grow, innovate, and pass values through the value chain, over the last couple of years we've been working with farmers to try to get the next APF, agricultural policy framework. We have tried to make some investments in some of the areas that Anne mentioned, like the uses of health claims. We want to communicate to consumers that the product contains barley and that barley can lower your risk of cardiovascular disease, or that oats that will lower your risk of cancer.

Those are things that we can't do in Canada as much as in the United States. I would definitely say we are working with the whole value chain, and we would like to see farmers do well in Canada, 100%.

10:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative James Bezan

Thank you.

Time has expired. I do want to thank the witnesses for coming in. We wish we had another hour to spend with you, and other members here would like to have asked questions. I know you never got your full testimony on the record, but we do have your report here. I really do appreciate it, especially in the summary where you define how you'd like to see “Product of Canada”, “Prepared in Canada”, and the grading system work. I think that's great information, and we'll definitely incorporate it into our study.

So I want to thank all of you for coming. I want to thank you for your patience with us earlier this morning, but we had to get through those motions as well.

With that, we do have to adjourn. Another committee is waiting to come in. Thanks a lot.

We're adjourned.