Evidence of meeting #32 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was product.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I'd like to thank the witnesses for coming forward today.
I think it's pertinent that we begin this conversation, as Mr. Steckle did, by saying that the safety of our food supply is not in question here. Safety is not an issue that we're debating here. It is mostly whether or not this “Product of Canada” labelling is misleading, whether it should be 51% cost, whether we should move up the content. The CFA has put a proposal forward that we put a whole new line of labelling in place, which some people around the table would like to see.
When we're looking at this I think it's important that we first establish what the problem is. I think the second thing we need to do is recognize that part of that problem is that consumers are bombarded by so many different labels and things trying to grab their attention when they walk into any store, never mind the grocery store. The more labels we force people to put in place, the more confusing it is for consumers. That's my point of view, and it's what many witnesses have said before us in the last few weeks.
It's important that we talk about truth in advertising. That's absolutely correct. We need to make sure that the labels that are out there are truthful. There's a lot of concern with 51% cost in the “Product of Canada” label.
That's something that we can definitely address. Whether it's cost or content, and whether it's 51% or 80%, I believe that can all be addressed through the guidelines, can it not--and relatively quickly?
9:30 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
It can, and it is on a guideline basis, so that means that the ability to make those adjustments is relatively rapid and the consultative process is intended to support.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
That's because right now it is a voluntary process, correct? You don't have to put “Product of Canada” on your product unless you deem that it's going to enhance the sale of your product, which it should, as people trust the Canadian symbol.
Is there anything to stop a group or an organization from developing a “Grown in Canada” label and using it, as long as it's truthful in advertising and follows all the same rules that we have under the guidelines and regulations right now? Is there anything stopping an organization from developing that and putting it on there?
9:30 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Again, the issue would be, as you've noted, that it be truthful and accurate. In order to provide for a level playing field there may be a need for some guidance, but there is no barrier to such a claim.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
I want to just deviate for one second. Let's go down the road of trying to change the regulations on this. How long do you think it would take? I understand you don't have the exact times, but would it be days, months, years to change the regulations on these things?
9:30 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
The regulatory process would follow the current rules in terms of regulation established by the Treasury Board, and that set of rules would involve consultation and publication in Canada Gazette, part I, with a prescribed consultation period followed by consideration of that input. So the process can happen--
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
This doesn't sound like a fast process if we want to change the regulations.
9:30 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
It's not an instant process, absolutely.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Well, then let's get away from that, because people want to change right now.
Mr. Easter has finally seen the light after 13 years and he'd like to get something done before he leaves here. So let's see if we can get something done on the other side of this.
So it's the guidelines that we have to address. Let's look at the enforcement aspect of this. Your organization looks after some of the enforcement. It's your inspectors who would go out and look into some of these complaints, as we've seen--Mr. Easter brought a whole bunch of things that were improperly labelled to this committee.
So when you receive a complaint like that you would send an inspector out and he would look into it and make sure that all the guidelines and regulations were being followed.
9:30 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
That's correct. We would follow up on that complaint with an investigation.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Out of curiosity, how many inspectors do you have?
9:30 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
I don't know the number off the top of my head. I'm looking at my colleagues as to whether they do.
The total agency staff complement is under 6,000, but of course not all of those are inspectors.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Wow. So you have the resources, then, to look after a lot of this.
This reminds me of the days when I was in municipal council. We had all these bylaws on the books, but we didn't have a bylaw officer to enforce them. If you don't have people enforcing them, then it doesn't matter how many laws you have in place, you're not going to have any enforcement. You're not necessarily going to have anybody following those laws.
You have the enforcement capability; you have the organization in place; you have the regulations in place. I'm reading one of the CBC stories on this, “"Product of Canada' labels misleading, consumer group says”, and we've heard that from many people here. It seems to me what we need to do is tighten up the guidelines on this so that it's easier for you to enforce. We need to work within the labelling of products that we have so that the consumer groups we have can actually understand the labels that are out there, and that the labels are not necessarily more truthful, because I believe they're truthful under the guidelines right now, but they're more to the expectations of Canadians when they go to the grocery store to buy that product. As I said, some of the members on the other side might be able to afford it, but I can't afford to bring my lawyer with me to the grocery store every time to make sure that everything is in place.
I think what we need to do, and what we've heard from many witnesses here, is to bring the guidelines up on the “Product of Canada” labelling that we currently have, so that it represents what Canadians themselves would believe in. I guess that's more a statement than a question, but I believe from my conversation with you today that it would be the simplest and quickest way to execute this as well.
9:35 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
That's certainly the aim in terms of the review, to determine if that is indeed the intent that exists so that we can adjust policy in line with expectation and intent.
May 8th, 2008 / 9:35 a.m.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
Thank you very much for taking the time to be here.
I'm just going to ask some questions, and hopefully we'll have enough time for the answers.
I'm still not clear. We have three organizations, three departments, represented here. I'd like a very quick answer as to what the different roles are, because I'm still not quite sure where the department, the CFIA, and the Competition Bureau fit in when we're dealing with this. So I'd like that clarification.
Secondly, if you had a wish list, would a staffing increase be one of the items you would wish for? If so, by how much, percentage-wise? The implication is whether you feel that you have enough staff to do the job that's required. And just to follow up on what Brian said, do we have enough inspectors?
One reason I'm asking that—and you've been following the transcripts—is that the other day we had an almost black-and-white difference between how FDA reacted and how CFIA reacted in regard to time in dealing with labels. It seemed that the gentleman who appeared before us was able to get a very quick response from the Americans with their computers, whereas in Canada it took letters, there had to be a hard copy, and so on.
So do we have enough people? If so, is the system as efficient as it could be? Obviously that has implications on how we function.
Lastly, do you have a timeline or directive to act? We're going to be hammering out the report next week. We will be recommending it, obviously, as we do, to the minister. Is this something that's going to be taken and looked at, and what's your timeline to start implementing something?
I think we have time for answers to those questions.
9:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
Let me be very, very clear. The Competition Bureau does not do food. There's specific legislation that takes over from ours. We do non-food items. We also don't do drugs, because there's specific legislation dealing with labelling for drugs. I think it's very important.
We have a wealth of experience in non-food, non-drug items, such as bicycles. We've had 30 years of having to deal with the issue. It's not quite the same; it doesn't involve food. But we're more than happy to assist the CFIA in any way we can in their consultations and meetings to deal with this issue.
9:35 a.m.
NDP
9:35 a.m.
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
For food.
9:35 a.m.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
In terms of the question on role, that's correct. The Canadian Food Inspection Agency has both the responsibility for establishing standards for non-health-and-safety-related issues for food labelling as well as the compliance and enforcement of both the non-health and health-and-safety-related issues related to food labelling.
I'll turn to my colleague from the department regarding role.
9:40 a.m.
Director General, International Trade Policy Directorate, Department of Agriculture and Agri-Food
Thank you.
As Mr. Mayers said, largely the policy and the enforcement is with the Food Inspection Agency. But the department looks at “Product of Canada” from a number of perspectives. One certainly is trade considerations and fulfilling our trade obligations and ensuring we comply with them. Also, there's market promotion and how it ties into things such as Brand Canada and promotional activities the department undertakes in its support to the industry as it does market promotion. We also take a look some of the economic considerations around labelling and other issues like that. Also we do some consumer research on a variety of things, labelling being one of them.
In general, we're looking at a variety of issues and how the policy may impact the agricultural sector.
9:40 a.m.
NDP
