Evidence of meeting #32 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was product.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
I think I said “We don't do drugs”.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Yes, “don't do drugs”; that's right.
Where I was leading with my next question is that there's an example in grocery stores, and the one I'm going to use is—I don't like using names—Loblaws. They can say to Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola, the two big cola producers, “We want you to put product on our shelf; you want to put product on our shelf, but it's going to cost you half a million dollars to do that.” I know what my feelings are on it, but I just want a yes-or-no answer, not whether it's legal or not. Do you think that's right? Just say yes or no.
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
Depending on the impact on competition, it could be very illegal, and it can be totally legal. I just can't say any more.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
I don't want the legal part of it. Do you think it's right?
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
It's not up to me. With 25 years at the Competition Bureau—
Conservative
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
—I've learned not to stick my nose in things that I shouldn't.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
If you're not going to answer that, then that's fine.
The problem I have with it is this. Loblaws--and I'm only using them as one of the three--don't take that half a million dollars and share it with all the stores they supply, including independents, which probably isn't right. Whether it's legal or illegal is another question. They don't do that.
That half a million dollars goes toward driving up the price of that product, at the end of the day. It has to. Coca-Cola or Pepsi can't absorb that without passing it on.
Number one, our job, whether it's CFIA or the Competition Bureau.... We're not protecting the consumer there at all from a reasonable price--it affects that. The thing that bothers me even more is that it takes away from a small producer in Charlottetown or somebody in Penticton, B.C., starting up a company to compete against them. Right off the bat, they're eliminated before they start. This really bothers me.
I can give you examples of where these same large grocery monopolies, which is what they are today, will eliminate suppliers of products--for example, companies that will supply fresh salads and what have you. I had a good example in my own riding of a twenty-some-year-old business. They systematically bankrupted the guy. Again, is it illegal? Not likely, but it's as close to legalized extortion as you're going to get, which is along the lines of these guys having to pay.
It's a problem out there. There's really not a question in it. I seriously think you have to be looking at this. It's a problem. At the end of the day, it's affecting the consumer by higher food prices, and it's eliminating a lot of small business, and basically eliminating some of our Canadian produce suppliers--not just produce, but any product.
I'm going to end with that, Mr. Chairman.
Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Civil Matters Branch, Competition Bureau
I share the concerns. We are very concerned about the sector. We receive complaints on it, and we are monitoring the situation, as well as making sure our markets remain fully competitive so Canadian consumers get the best product choices, the best prices, and are well served.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Thank you.
I think we've had a really good round.
Do you have a question?
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Yes. I will spin off your question to the CFIA, Mr. Chair.
In terms of how we move ahead with this issue, whether it's a simple guideline change or requires a change in the legislation, the chair asked about the policy context using the guidelines, and I think you answered that this was possible. But it's only possible, as I understand it, from increasing the percentage level from 51% to something higher, which still doesn't get at the content problem. So just clarify that issue for me, if you could.
We understand there are timeframes you have to worry about for industry and the labelling that's in the system and so on. All we're talking about, in changing the guidelines, is changing the percentage level, which still doesn't deal with the truth in labelling that it's supposed to relate to content. How do we get around that?
The last point I want to make, Mr. Chair, is that Morgan Currie is formerly from P.E.I. It's nice to see another islander at the table, but I don't know why he would come to an agriculture committee wearing a blue shirt and tie. That bothers me.
Debra or Paul.
Morgan Currie Acting Assistant Deputy Commissioner of Competition, Mergers Branch, Competition Bureau
I never wear it when I'm home.
Acting Vice-President, Programs, Canadian Food Inspection Agency
Thank you.
We are not limiting our focus to the percentage. We certainly have appreciated the kinds of things you've been hearing and the interest that you're expressing, so our consideration as it relates to “Product of Canada” will not be limited to just the issue of the percentage. It is indeed possible that the policy change could address, as well, the sourcing of content as part of the direction going forward, to address the interest that you've expressed. We are not constrained to the percentage alone.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Thank you.
Seeing that nobody else wants to ask questions, I thank all of you for your input today in helping us to wrap up the hearings. It's going to help direct us as we develop our recommendations report to present to the House, the minister, and the Government of Canada.
With that, I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.