Evidence of meeting #40 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contraband.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Chair, Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board
This is not a question of retirees whatsoever, sir. I do appreciate that.
The average age is 60, and the tobacco farmer needs a solution. They need a program, and they need it now. And yes, the province has to come on board as well.
They have indicated to us that the solution--I know, wrap it up--is to let the product pay for the solution, and I think that all of us have to sit down together and get there.
You're right, Chair, we don't have any more time—none whatsoever.
Conservative
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Thank you very much.
Mr. Preston, I imagine you'll agree with us that the future of tobacco production in Canada is not all that bright. This crop doesn't have much of a future. Instead it's coming to an end. Do you agree with me?
Elgin—Middlesex—London, CPC
Yes, my friends and neighbours are having some difficulties, I'll put it that way.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Earlier we talked about the Tobacco Adjustment Assistance Program, which hasn't met all needs. Programs were implemented by the previous government, but indebtedness and other problems remain. Not everything has been resolved for tobacco producers, and that's why we're here today, once again.
Elgin—Middlesex—London, CPC
As you mentioned, the tobacco adjustment assistance program in its entirety wasn't enough. It was a step forward and it accomplished a little bit, but it wasn't the whole answer. It's going to take a far more comprehensive way forward, and it's going to take more than one party acting on it. It takes all of us working together. As Mr. Neukamm answered in the last question, the economic development piece isn't the only answer, and I'm here to agree that it isn't the only answer. There's far more needed, but we can't ignore any of these pieces; they all have to be there.
We're facing a single-industry situation in that area of southern Ontario—and you've had growers in Quebec facing this too, and I know there are others across Canada—with the industry shrinking to the point it is today, and there's no reason to think it's not going to go further. If we are to fix this, we have to have a comprehensive look at this with all oars in the water going in the same direction. The economic development situation is the same as that being faced by many single-industry towns in the forestry industry, or even now, in some cases, in manufacturing. This is where we find ourselves in the five counties in southern Ontario that have found tobacco to be their lifeblood, the economic driver of their area—but it's going away.
It's about the producers, but it's also about the guy in the barber shop, the guy at the car dealership, the guy who runs the local restaurant, and it's about the chambers of commerce, the mayors in these areas, and the municipalities, whose tax bases are shrinking. The good thing about the people in that part of southern Ontario is that they have a fantastic entrepreneurial spirit; they will come through, and they see a life.
The economic piece brought to that area by tobacco was all they used to have, and now the answer is that we need to be comprehensive in our solution. It's about all of that.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Your answer indicates that you think a step has been taken forward. You also agree that others must be taken in order to solve the problem. As my colleague Mr. Lloyd said earlier, meetings and a task force have been organized. Wouldn't now be the time to take that step forward, that final step, and to implement an exit program? Is that among the government's intentions?
Minister Ritz said at the start of the year that he was studying the matter and that something was going to be implemented. Have you assessed what's being done about this in the world? In the emergency debate, a number of colleagues in the House of Commons talked about programs implemented in Australia and the United States.
Are you seriously considering offering tobacco producers an exit program of this kind? We're not asking that it be identical to the programs of those countries. However, I would like to know whether something concrete is being planned.
Elgin—Middlesex—London, CPC
To answer your question, and as we've spoken in the House and at other times, the comprehensive way forward is about all of these things. You mentioned the U.S. strategy, and that had a very heavy manufacturing component to it. The manufacturers really came to the table and, over a 10-year period, worked with the producers in their case.
I'm happy we're finally hearing the province's name spoken in this problem. The province has to be there; the manufacturers have to be there. The tobacco board is doing all it can do; Linda and I speak often. We all have to come to the same conclusion. It has to happen all at the same time.
We've talked about contraband, and Minister Day and Minister Nicholson are moving forward on contraband. The problem was allowed to grow to the point where, as I believe Mr. St. Amand said the other day, 40% of all the tobacco consumed in Canada is contraband tobacco. This is a huge bite off the industry.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Mr. Preston, I'm going to have to cut you off. Mr. Bellavance's time has expired, and we're going to move on to Mr. Lauzon. To be fair to all members of the committee, we have to keep our time brief.
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Thank you very much.
You can understand that we have to really speed this along, so I'm going to ask a bunch of questions and preferably get some very, very quick answers.
I'd like to address the question to you, Linda. I think you said in no uncertain terms that the province should be part of the solution.
Chair, Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board
Of course. Everyone should be part of the solution.
Conservative
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Okay. Do you also believe the manufacturers should be part of the solution?
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Based on that, actually we have a lot of members on the opposite side who say exactly what you think and what others think. For example, Mr. Atamanenko said he believes we need to get all stakeholders involved. Mr. Szabo had a number of quotes saying that we have to have a comprehensive solution, that this is a crisis in these communities, that we need a comprehensive strategy, that we need to look at where all the implications are for the affected communities, that it has been here for a long time.
The truth of the matter is that what we need is a comprehensive solution. So you can understand that when a motion was brought forward for one single-faceted, narrow approach to the solution, it wasn't appropriate. I think you would agree that we need a comprehensive solution. Any motion other than that would almost be irrelevant.
Chair, Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board
Thank you for the question.
There's no way I can respond to that, whether it's right or wrong. It's people we'd better start dealing with here. We have people suffering. As far as motions are concerned, those bring it to the forefront and have done that. We do need a comprehensive program, but the point of the matter is that that's a lot to say; get at a table and get it done.
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Exactly. We're in agreement with that, and I think Mr. Preston is working along those lines.
The other thing is that we have the Tobacco Farmers in Crisis appearing in our second hour. You mentioned something earlier, that it is the board that is the true voice of the tobacco farmers. So I'm starting to get confused. I'm not from southwestern Ontario. Who actually speaks for the tobacco farmers?
Chair, Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board
If I can answer the question, the marketing board is duly elected, so there is an election process every year on a rotational basis for directors of the board who do handle all that.
As far as other groups go, you know what, there's nothing wrong with that. It's wonderful. People have to come together. It just demonstrates how serious the problem is and that people have to come together. The Tobacco Farmers in Crisis came together thinking they could contribute. In this particular organization, the NFU, Mr. Proven here is not a tobacco farmer, but he has come together with some tobacco farmers thinking he can assist in the problem as well. There's nothing wrong with that.
But as for who are the people government speaks to, it's the same. You were duly elected, and so were we.
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Thank you very much.
We have to give full credit to Minister Day. As you mentioned from personal experience, we have a tremendous contraband problem down in southwestern Ontario—as well as all of Ontario, for that matter—and other parts as well. Do you not feel that if we can solve that problem, or at least go a long way towards solving that problem, that would allow more of your farmers to be able to make a little better living?
Chair, Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board
Fred will answer that question.
Vice-Chair, Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board
Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.
You do make a point. The manufacturers are looking for measurable success on the contraband front. However, we have no confidence that it is going to restore our ability to supply them. They have gotten a taste of cheap imported tobacco in their efforts to compete against contraband. We have no confidence they're coming back to us.
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
Which makes the point that this has to be a comprehensive solution. And I like Mr. Preston's approach and the minister's approach to this.
I have one question for the representative of the NFU. How many tobacco farmers do you have in your organizations?
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
I realize that, but how many tobacco farmers do you have?