Evidence of meeting #9 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
I would like to call the question on the motion, if I can.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
You can't call the question.
Is there debate on the question?
Mr. Anderson.
5 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We may not be debating this as long as some people would anticipate, but I think it's important for the record that we ask why the opposition does not want to reveal the information to farmers about the cost of Mr. Measner's severance and retirement package. We thought it was important that if we're going to take a look at that, the farmers, who are paying the bill for him in western Canada, particularly in terms of any retirement or pension packages, need to know what that package was that he was getting. I think it's also important for them to understand what salary and what benefits he was getting in the past as well.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
A point of order.
The parliamentary secretary is debating the amendment.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
That's right, but he is debating the amendment that was already defeated. He's talking about what he hid in his amendment.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
I believe, Mr. Easter, that he is talking about the reimbursement of the severance package, and he's making a case about what the severance package is based upon, so he is open to carry this discussion forward.
5 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Some day Mr. Easter will learn that volume doesn't overcome substance.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Some day you'll learn your responsibilities as parliamentary secretary too, maybe.
5 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
You don't need to get personal, Mr. Easter. We're just trying to find out for western Canadian farmers what kind of money they're having to spend, and we think it's reasonable. We don't think it's unreasonable for western Canadian farmers who pay the bill to have an understanding of what the retirement and pension benefits are for a person who--
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I'm going to have to slow down a little bit here I think and maybe explain some things, because Mr. Easter doesn't seem to be interested in listening.
We think it is important that western Canadian farmers have access to this information. The reason we think that is important is that western Canadian farmers are paying the bill. So I'm not sure why the opposition is trying to deny western Canadian farmers the opportunity to find out what they are paying, what the cost to them is to pay Mr. Measner not just his severance package but his retirement package. I'm surprised that Mr. Atamanenko didn't support that as well. He seemed to have an interest in Mr. Measner's severance package but has no interest in western Canadian farmers understanding what the other benefits are that Mr. Measner is receiving. Mr. Easter is making the point that perhaps the minister has access to information. I'm sure he does, because he's responsible for the Canadian Wheat Board, and the government is given that mandate in the legislation, but western Canadian farmers do not have that information.
So that's the point I'm trying to make. The original motion here is almost not understandable, because it talks about the government immediately reimbursing farmers for the extra costs. Mr. Atamanenko says that means the Canadian Wheat Board. That's not what the motion says.
So I guess we're going to oppose the motion. The opposition may pass it, but it doesn't mean anything as it's written there, so I'll leave it at that.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Miller Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON
Mr. Chairman, first of all, I have to agree with Mr. Anderson that I do think that probably wheat and barley producers affected by the Canadian Wheat Board certainly do want to see those figures. But I want to go back to my earlier argument that to vote on something around this table without having all the information.... You wouldn't run your business or make a major decision on something to do with finances if you didn't have all the information. As I said, if that information--and I'm talking about the benefit package and everything that Mr. Measner received--has to be done in camera, then so be it, but I can't support anything based on nothing. What are we really voting on? We don't know.
Until we have that information here, I'm opposed to the motion.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON
I agree with my colleagues, but there's another thing, Mr. Atamanenko. On the extra costs incurred by the Canadian Wheat Board, you say you want to give that to the farmers. Now I understand that the farmers buy into the Canadian Wheat Board, but I think you're mixing apples and oranges here. On the motion, as it's read, there would need to be a wordsmith have a look at it, because I can't see how you can reimburse farmers when the cost was borne by somebody who wasn't the farmers. It's sort of a contradiction.
The other thing that it really gets back down to is, how much is the government going to be on the hook for? Is it going to be $50,000, $500,000, or, as I said, $50 million? I don't think anybody around the table has a clue, until we follow something like Mr. Anderson's advice. Let's get some figures, and then we can make an intelligent decision, and maybe we should do it or maybe we shouldn't. But until we get that, how do you, as Mr. Miller says, make a good business decision when you don't know the facts? It's not a good, informed decision.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I certainly support the motion. Although it's not said, and maybe Alex could answer this, when he says, “recommend that the government immediately reimburse farmers”, I expect he means through the Canadian Wheat Board, and maybe he can answer that.
I have a couple of points. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Agriculture asked, how much is the government on the hook for? The amount would be exactly the same amount as western Canadian farmers are on the hook and paying for as the result of the government's actions--the firing of Adrian Measner for doing his job. That's how much, and we don't know.
You'd think if you had a sensible government, they would have found that out before they took the illegal activities they took in terms of putting gag orders on the board, firing directors, firing the CEO, etc.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Carol Skelton Conservative Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK
I have to disagree with Mr. Easter.
Mr. Atamanenko asked to have the question put before us here. Let us go on. We don't need to have Mr. Easter go off on a tirade about something. I think Mr. Atamanenko asked to have the question put, so let's—