Evidence of meeting #9 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendment.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
I do ask that when you are discussing this, we talk about the issues surrounding Mr. Measner—
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
That's what I'm talking about. What we're talking about is the severance for Adrian Measner—
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
And maybe the members opposite don't want to hear the facts, but the facts are—
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
—that farmers are already paying for that severance as a result of the actions of the Government of Canada.
Surely, because of what the government did, the government should compensate western Canadian farmers through the Canadian Wheat Board for the severance they had to pay for the firing of the CEO without cause as a result of the government's actions.
This was a man who was CEO and had 32 years of experience in the industry. As I said earlier, it was basically insinuated, if not directly told to him, that he could break the law and keep his job or he could obey the law and get fired. That was the reality of the situation.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Once again we need to clarify Mr. Easter's misleading us, I guess, because he claims to know the situation here. Mr. Measner was not told to break the law or left in a situation where he had to break the law. I think Mr. Easter's hyperbole is probably okay for him, but he should be accurate here and reflect that.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
It is the reality, Mr. Chairman, but that's not unusual from this government. We saw the same thing last night, with what they're trying to encourage the regulator over nuclear energy to do. They're encouraging them to break the law as well.
Conservative
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
In any event, Mr. Measner was well respected around the world. He was seen as one of the best CEOs in the grain industry. As a result of the government's actions, the Canadian Wheat Board lost that individual. He has a right as an individual to ask for severance, and because it's as a result of the government's actions, farmers shouldn't bear the cost of his severance pay.
It should be the Government of Canada that bears that cost, and that's what this motion is all about, and I support it fully.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Wayne, I ask that you clarify that Mr. Measner was CEO for 32 years.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
He wasn't CEO for 32 years; he was 32 years in the grain industry and CEO.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Okay. I have Mr. St. Amand, then Mr. Anderson, and then Mr. Atamanenko.
Liberal
Lloyd St. Amand Liberal Brant, ON
I was simply going to say, Mr. Chair, that I think all of the points, relevant and irrelevant, have been made. I think the positions are pretty clear and I would suggest that the question be asked.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
I can't do that because I still have speakers on my list.
Mr. Anderson.
Conservative
David Anderson Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you, again, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Easter may have said more than he wanted to. He talked about the government's actions and how he feels the government should reimburse the Wheat Board, but somewhere he said that sensible government should know what those numbers are. I would argue that a sensible opposition should be asking what those numbers are. They're asking us to spend a pile of money, but they don't seem to have any interest at all in finding out what those numbers are. I saw this motion the other day and I thought it didn't made sense. It doesn't talk about the Canadian Wheat Board; it talks about reimbursing farmers. In that context, it's not clear.
If the opposition is going to call on us to spend a certain amount of money, we think it's responsible to find out what these numbers are. It's clear that they aren't particularly interested in that. We think they should be.
Clearly there's a lot more than just the severance that is costing money. Mr. Measner's last couple of years of salaries and benefits, which were extensive, I understand, would have contributed to the pension and retirement package he has. We think it's important that we take a look at those numbers. Those are just a couple of the numbers. In terms of the salaries and benefits, we think it's important to take a look at the bonuses, because that would have an effect on the pension and severance package as well.
I think the bonuses are an important thing, for a couple of reasons. One is that through much of the time that Mr. Measner was the chairman of the Canadian Wheat Board, the volumes the board was trading in actually went down. It seems to me that there's an even bigger issue than just severance packages. As a committee, we could potentially take a look at the board's policy in terms of its bonuses over the last few years. If they're talking about performance bonuses, and Mr. Atamanenko wants farmers to make sure they're getting value for their money, perhaps we should be taking a look at that situation as well. Are these bonuses being given as performance bonuses, or are they a salary that was hidden from farmers' eyes? I think the salary was posted, but the bonuses never were, so farmers never understood precisely what Mr. Measner's salary was. That's an issue that certainly needs to be looked at. I think we need to take a look at those bonuses.
There certainly have been issues raised about memberships. The Canadian Wheat Board seems to have a number of memberships that have been part of their package. We need to take a look at those. Any extended health care coverage I think would be something that farmers would be particularly interested in. They don't have that kind of coverage. We need to take a look at that as well.
Mr. Chair, I'm prepared to go on all night, but I think I've probably spoken long enough on this.
Mr. Easter has talked about the fact that sensible government needs to take a look at these numbers. It would be my challenge that the opposition should be sensible and insist that we look at the numbers.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
As we're going around the discussions, there are a lot of members who aren't pronouncing my name correctly. We can have a little lesson after the session on that.
I would just like to call the question on this.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative James Bezan
Okay.
Are we ready for the question?
(Motion agreed to)
Okay. We will go to the next motion on our list.
NDP
Alex Atamanenko NDP British Columbia Southern Interior, BC
I move:
That the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food recommend that the government immediately reimburse farmers for the extra costs incurred by the Canadian Wheat Board (CWB) as a result of the government’s changes to the election rules after the process for a Director’s election had already begun.
This basically addresses the election that took place of directors at the Canadian Wheat Board, where halfway through there were changes and costs incurred to the Wheat Board, and thus to farmers through the Wheat Board. I would just like to introduce this motion to reimburse them for those costs. That's basically it.
I suppose we could go back and forth discussing the pros and cons of the Wheat Board, which we did, but I'd like to have a chance to have a vote on this motion.
