Agriculture Committee on April 2nd, 2009

[Ernie Van Boom]

Our understanding is that they found only one cyst. They've actually given us that information, but as you heard earlier on, we've had a very difficult time getting actual information as to how the whole protocol unfolded in the laboratory. What our knowledge is is that the cyst that was discovered was somewhat deteriorated, and that was enough to trigger the whole sequence of events that followed. You would think that a little bit more testing would take place, given the consequences of a supposed positive find. That's all we know.

I don't know, Cecil, if you want to add to that.

[Cecil Goutbeck, Owner, Northbank Potato Farms Ltd.]

Yes. Right after that day, that's when they shut the border down, even after that single find. Our contention is that we don't believe the science is there. We're not sure if there are nematodes on our farm.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

As you said before, you've done--

[Cecil Goutbeck]

They've done tens of thousands of samples--

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

And no sign of any at all?

[Cecil Goutbeck]

And no sign.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

That's where I get confused. If they're just going to shut down after the first case, why would you go and do the tens of thousands of soil samples? It sounds to me as if they've made their decision. It's done.

[Ernie Van Boom]

What our trading partner is looking for is a smoking gun. I guess even the single find probably has our trading partner saying there has to be more than that. Through negotiations, CFIA went out looking for it and they couldn't find it.

The way the samples are done is using a GPS system. They went to the original spot where they allegedly--I always throw that word “allegedly” in--found that first nematode, that first cyst, and they dug up a 40-pound sample of dirt right from that spot and they couldn't find anything there. They did very, very heavy testing on that particular field and then the following summer our whole farm was gone over with very intensive testing, and I think that was at the admonition of our trading partners.

I have asked CFIA representatives, because the word on the street now--of course, we don't get told anything, we get it from the street--is that there's going to be one more year of testing on our farm. I've asked the CFIA representatives, “What are you going to tell our trading partners after you go over this whole farm again and there's still nothing?” We think we're being a little bit used as a pawn maybe to protect the reputation. I have to come out and say that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Your time has expired, Mr. Hoback. Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Valeriote.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I cannot, Mr. Gemme, say with kinder words that although you may have been afraid to come here, you are an excellent advocate for your cause.

I also can't imagine the suffering that you're experiencing in Quebec. I know a law firm in my city--I'm a lawyer originally--burned down completely and they lost everything and they're still trying to recover. I can't imagine what you're suffering through.

I am curious about one thing. You talked about moving to other major crops and being encouraged to move to other major crops. I've read in a report that this also is being encouraged. You indicated the difficulty in moving to other major crops, and in moving to other major crops you'd be restricted, really, to one or two producers.

What would the model look like for the 21 producers who are affected? What would the model look like? Would they have to sell their land to one large co-op or give up their rights in some way? I'm not certain. Can you talk more about that?

[Philippe Gemme]

Of course it would be hard for us to start over farming something else. For some people, it is a matter of age. Let us not fool ourselves: a 65-year-old will probably not consider that to be an option. Right now, we are expecting businesses to merge, such as medium-sized farms that want to expand. In Saint-Amable, there are a lot of workers, lots of young people. The problem is that the fathers of these young people have seen their net worth slashed to a third of what it was. As the bank manager sees it, Philippe Gemme was worth so much, but now he is not worth as much. It is kind of like trying to sell a $350,000 house that has pyrite in the basement. Nobody wants to buy it.

Bankers say that in Saint-Amable, land that used to be worth $8,000 is now worth no more than $3,000 because its only value is as land for growing corn. I am not saying that things will never go back to the way they were, but right now, the banks consider us to be risky. There will be changes, but we need money. We need a lot of money to start over doing something else.

Right now, land values have dropped by over half. For example, the warehouse that was supposed to store $1 million worth of potatoes is now being used to store machinery. Bank managers consider that warehouse's value to be the same as that of a machine shed.

We need support to enable young people to take over and farms to get back on their feet, whether by merging or doing something else. Some might be able to buy their neighbour's land if that neighbour is old enough or has enough land to retire from farming. Young people would be able to contribute if they had support or could take advantage of a special program because of the crisis. As I said before, once there has been a ministerial order, nothing changes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Van Boom, I'm curious. I've looked at a document that suggests to me that the CFIA was communicating with you and, on September 24, 2008, e-mailed you and said: “Presently, we do not have an established and accepted process of deregulating land associated to a golden nematode detection.” Do you recall reading that?

[Ernie Van Boom]

Yes.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Okay. Well, that troubles me, because basically you're sitting in limbo now for the rest of your life.

[Ernie Van Boom]

I hope not.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I'm curious. You made reference to an agreement that you need to make with the CFIA. You made reference to that in your presentation, that you need to come to an agreement, and I'm curious what you see those terms as being.

Secondly, I'm curious about whether you feel—and I'm going to ask you this directly—the minister himself should be intervening in this case and maybe doing some damage control to help you restore confidence in the Alberta potato crops and restore your reputation.

Can you tell me first about the terms and, secondly, about what you would ask of this minister?

[Ernie Van Boom]

I think what we're looking for is some method for CFIA to lift these restrictions off our land. Unfortunately, the way the CFIA has been having to work—and I can empathize with that a little bit—is that they kind of take their marching orders from our trading partner. But they need to convince our trading partner that perhaps there might have been a mistake made here.

And I know that's very difficult to do. I sometimes wonder if they live in a world where you're not allowed to do that, and that would be very sad if they're representing me. But anyway, I think that has to be done, and then I believe these restrictions could be lifted off our land.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Mark Eyking]

Thank you, Mr. Van Boom.

We have to go to the next questioner.

Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

Thank you.

Now, I have to apologize. I have a couple of questions that I likely may have missed just because I was a little bit late getting here. I was in another committee that went right until 11 o'clock and was in a different building. So I want to apologize to everybody. I may have missed the answer to this, but I want to help, to try to understand your situation, Mr. Van Boom and Mr. Goutbeck.

How did this come to be? What led to your soil being tested? What led to this finding by CFIA? How did that come to be? Was that a request made by somebody? I just don't know.

[Ernie Van Boom]

I understand your question.

I think there is a bit of history with nematodes on both sides of the border that probably has led to some concerns about this. We're all familiar with what happened in Quebec in 2006.

Also, though, in Idaho in 2006 there was a find. Here again, this is just my understanding, but if you're asking me, the response of the CFIA to the find in Idaho was harsh. They closed the border to washed product from Idaho. So I'm just wondering if there is maybe a little retribution going on there.

In any event, in the seed industry, all of a sudden the rule was in place in the fall, at the last minute, that before anybody could ship in 2007, that nematode testing would have to happen.

As I answer that question, I also should tell you that our farm, for 10 years prior to that, shipped to Mexico. We would get tested for nematodes on our farm every year that we shipped to Mexico, and it was always negative.

So I would say some previous incidents that happened between the two countries probably led to this kind of pressure to start testing for nematodes.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

So now, as a result of what has happened, your land is essentially on hold. Can you tell me exactly the process that is involved there?

[Ernie Van Boom]

We're not allowed to put potatoes on our land for seed production, and that is the strength in central Alberta. Central Alberta has a long and strong reputation internationally for seed potatoes.

We would be allowed to put certain varieties on there, and then we would have to wash everything going on and off those fields all the time, which is very onerous.

I mentioned in the presentation that even for us to put grain on these lands was very difficult. Those of you who farm grain can imagine washing an air seeder when it comes off the land, washing every truck and grain combine that comes off the land, all the time, and always having to call out inspectors and so on. It's very cumbersome. We've spent quite a few thousand dollars on cleaning equipment, and of course, it requires the extra labour as well.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Wild Rose, AB]

I certainly appreciate that it has made it very difficult to carry on operations.

Going forward, let's just hypothetically say that if tomorrow the regulations were to be removed from your land, what would then happen, in your best guess? Would you be back in business? What would be the effect on you? What would be the process going forward for you?

[Ernie Van Boom]

I think probably we would in some sense still be starting from square one, because most of our clients will have gone out and sought new suppliers. Potato buyers or seed buyers are a very loyal bunch. We always appreciated that.

So I think, to be responsible, our acreage would probably be far beneath our historical acreage, simply because it would not be responsible to put in the higher acreage because we probably wouldn't have the market for it. We'd have to earn back that market.

[Cecil Goutbeck]

To add to that, getting our land, the people we rent from--that reputation is hard to get. Even if they lifted the restrictions, it would still be hard to get new land or other land, because we usually trade land or look for more land. That might be residual for a long time.