Agriculture Committee on Feb. 12th, 2009

[Alex Atamanenko, NDP, British Columbia Southern Interior, BC]

I think that's a healthy compromise. I accept that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay. We have to vote on the amendment. Since the mover has accepted it, I would suggest, if it's okay with everybody, we have that vote to accept the amendment, then we still are open for discussion on the amended motion.

(Amendment agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

It was carried unanimously.

For further discussion, I have five speakers here: Mr. Bellavance, Mr. Easter, Mr. Lemieux, Mr. Eyking, closing up with Mr. Atamanenko. I'll get Mr. Storseth on there, okay.

On the motion as amended, Mr. Bellavance, you have the floor.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I would like to put a technical question to Jean-François.

I imagine that under Standing Order 108(1) Alex's motion as drafted is in order. Otherwise we will not be discussing this.

I would like to know whether or not under this motion there will be a subcommittee made up of as many members as the standing committee, that is 12 members, and, after the study is completed—and Brian touched on this a little earlier—whether or not it is the subcommittee or the standing committee that will be reporting directly to the House.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I'm going to ask Mr. Lafleur to respond.

[The Clerk]

You are absolutely right, Mr. Bellavance: the subcommittee will report to the main committee. Subcommittees cannot report directly to the House. That is a basic principle. The House creates committees and that is why committees report to the House. A subcommittee must report to the main committee. The only way it could act otherwise would be if everyone agreed or if the House made an order to that effect.

[André Bellavance, Bloc, Richmond—Arthabaska, QC]

I don't have a problem with that. I just wanted to understand.

Does the fact that some health committee members will be working with us prevent their committee from reporting to the House? Their members will be involved with the drafting of the report. It will therefore be recorded that members of the health committee were present.

[The Clerk]

It was my understanding that it was the will of the committee, as well as the mover, Mr. Atamanenko, to establish a subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food to deal with listeriosis and food safety.

I want the following to be very clear. In this particular case, the subcommittee of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food must be made up of permanent members of the main committee or associate members. If permanent members of the health committee are on our list of associate members, that is fine. Those individuals can be members of our subcommittee. If they are not on the list but we want to include them, then we will have to modify our list of associate members in order to include them. Then the subcommittee will be free to include them or not.

Furthermore, if the Standing Committee on Health wants to report on food safety, it can do so but it cannot use our mandate to do that. The subcommittee's mandate is actually created under the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food. That being said, nothing prevents the Standing Committee on Health from undertaking its own investigation or study on that topic.

In terms of your last point, I would like to point out that if the standing committee would like to report on its proceedings to the House, it would have the power to do so. It would probably be possible because the committee will have studied the issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Storseth.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, I'd like to apologize to Mr. Bellavance as well. I was going by the intent that Mr. Atamanenko had spoken to before, about it being more of a joint committee. The clerk is absolutely correct about what it says in the motion. We can have the debate later as to whether or not the subcommittee can or can't report to the House directly, but at the end of the day, he's right; it does say in this motion that this committee will not be reporting directly to the House. He's absolutely correct there.

I do have an amendment to the main motion, Mr. Chair. I don't know if you want to go through everybody first, go to my amendment, and then let everybody talk again. If you want, though, I can move the amendment now. It's up to you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Now would be the time then.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I would make an amendment to the motion so that it reads: “That the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food establish a subcommittee on listeriosis; and that the members of the subcommittee be named after the usual consultations with the whips;”--and this is where I would amend it--“that the composition of the subcommittee be proportionally the same as that of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, with the chair being a member of the government.”

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Just to clarify, you read in “listeriosis” after we'd already changed it to “health safety”.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I'm sorry, health safety. I just want to add that part in. I have it in writing for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I thought that's what you meant, but I had to clarify it.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I think we all take it for granted, but if we're going to create a subcommittee, it's not necessarily taken for granted that it's going to have the same proportionality as we have here. Also, we want to make sure we retain the chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

You've heard the motion. Discussion is going to continue with my list of speakers, but now we're dealing with the amendment.

I have Mr. Easter next.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

It all ties together, whether it's the amendment or not, Mr. Chair. I would point out, though, in regard to Brian's comments on Ms. Weatherill, that we've seen this time and time again when we question the structure of the investigation. We're not questioning the credibility of Ms. Weatherill. It wouldn't matter if it was Jean Chrétien doing the inquiry; when he knocks on the door of the Minister of Agriculture, we don't want the Minister of Agriculture to hide. We want an inquiry that has authority; that's the point.

On this committee I think our intent is basically to have the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food do the hearing and to allow, as the clerk said, some health committee members who are associate members of this committee or made associate members of this committee to be subbed in, some people who have some expertise. I know Brian has an amendment, but I'm wondering if we could drop the whole business of a subcommittee of this committee and just make the motion that the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food establish a study on food safety and that it be authorized to hold extra meetings in order to deal with the issue.

I'm not moving an amendment, Mr. Chair, I'm just wondering if that would get us out of the difficulty we're in. We know we're scheduled to have two meetings a week, but if we just establish this committee, drop the whole subcommittee business on the understanding that we can sub in associate members who would likely have expertise on the health side from the various parties, then we don't have to worry about any of the rest, but we would need authorization and the understanding that the committee would hold extra hearings. There's you as chair, if you couldn't attend some of those, then there are vice-chairs, whatever, and we have no problem with the government chairing the hearings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I think Mr. Easter is suggesting another amendment that basically would leave this in the hands of the committee and not a subcommittee, but we have an amendment that we're discussing from Mr. Storseth. So I would ask Mr. Storseth, if it's appropriate, if he would change his amendment to that--

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

What I will do, Mr. Chair, that being the case, is withdraw my amendment and then we can vote on the main--

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Mr. Chair, before we move an amendment, can we bat it around a little bit, and if it's acceptable for us to go that way and if we're all of the same understanding, it would be the full committee. It could hold extra meetings but allow associate members to be subbed in. That's basically what I'm saying.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay. Mr. Storseth has said he's going to withdraw his amendment. How I would see this happening in order to do what Mr. Easter has just suggested is that we would have to vote on the motion, and if the motion was defeated, then a new motion would come forth dealing with that.

Mr. Storseth has agreed to withdraw his amendment. I need the agreement of the committee in order for him to do that.

(Amendment withdrawn)

I have a list of speakers here that we're trying to stay with. We're back to the motion, and Mr. Lemieux is next on the list, and then Mr. Eyking, I believe.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I was listening attentively to Mr. Easter the first time he spoke, and now the second time he spoke, regarding the subcommittee. As an MP, I have the same concern, I think, as Mr. Easter has. If we strike a subcommittee, I may not be able to participate just because of the scheduling issues. I'm already on two committees.

I know that people don't feel sorry for me for being on two committees, but I'm just saying that if there's a subcommittee struck, I and my colleagues and people across the way may not be able to participate in the subcommittee. If we're saying that this is an important issue for the agriculture committee, then I just think it's very appropriate that the agriculture committee members participate in the meetings themselves.

I like Mr. Easter's suggestion that if a particular party decides to substitute members in and out.... I mean, that's the flexibility we all have. If we want some of our colleagues from other committees to replace us, or to replace one of our colleagues, I think that's fully acceptable. We normally conduct ourselves in that way.

I basically concur with Mr. Easter that if we feel this is important for the agriculture committee--I think Mr. Hoback had mentioned earlier that listeriosis, food safety, and CFIA all fall within the agriculture purview--then it would be a shame, I think, to strike a subcommittee that most of the agriculture committee members couldn't participate in, for whatever reason, be it scheduling conflicts or other reasons. I think we should tackle this as the agriculture committee. We're going to end up reviewing that report anyway. If anyone tables the report in the House, it will be the agriculture committee. If we weren't there during the hearings, it would make it all the more difficult for us to meaningfully review the report.

So I would like to concur with what Mr. Easter is suggesting, that we deal with this as the agriculture committee. We are the agriculture committee members, and this is important to the agriculture committee.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Lemieux and Mr. Easter are agreeing on a suggestion.

I do have speakers here, I realize that, and I don't know whether there are new points to come up or not, but I would see us at a point here where I think it would be good if we voted on the motion as is and go from there.

Mr. Hoback.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

On a point of order, are we voting on the motion? We've already voted on the amendment, and now we're discussing the motion--