Evidence of meeting #36 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was security.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Sheep Federation
Absolutely, but some producers are getting tired of putting a lot of money into producing a product that the coyotes are feasting on. So we have to do both.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
I don't want to get back into the gun registry here.
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Sheep Federation
I know. I'm sorry, I won't go there.
You raise an interesting point, and one of the things we know for sure is that the Toronto area, the GTA, is our largest lamb-consuming population. Our second largest lamb-consuming population is actually Vancouver, and part of the problem is that 60% of our product is slaughtered in Ontario; 90% of it is slaughtered provincially. We cannot get product into Vancouver, so B.C. consumers of lamb are more often than not consuming an imported product.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
If might say, it's not only B.C., but Edmonton and Calgary.... They have a huge ethnic market there that loves this product.
There's too much regulatory burden, and it's holding down this growing and developing niche market before it can even start to blossom. I'd simply say that I think that's something we should be looking at working toward.
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Sheep Federation
We have been working on that as well, but every time we try to talk about that, people say “Ah, let's not go there.”
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
I do know from our family's point of view that there are some programs the Government of Canada has put forward, but the regulatory burden still remains in place.
You talked about the average herd size being 99. Do you have any idea what average herd size it takes to be profitable?
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Sheep Federation
I can you get that. It depends on where you are and if you are extensively producing or intensively producing, and how much your land is worth. But we can get that information.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
If you could send some numbers in regard to that, I'd appreciate it.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Mr. Chair, I think it is important that we take the time, being the agriculture committee and having the honour of having the opposition whip here...I would hope Mr. Easter would take a couple of moments to have some face-to-face so that he can get more than a question every 50 or 60 questions that the Liberal Party puts up. That way we can actually have a debate on agriculture. Or since Mr. Valeriote is doing a great job, maybe we should have a new critic for agriculture.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you. Your time has expired, Mr. Storseth.
We'll now move to Mr. Valeriote, for five minutes.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. MacKay, you briefly alluded to the control of agricultural inputs by a few large manufacturers. It raises questions about the level of competition among suppliers of these inputs. I think that is one of the main issues affecting the competitiveness in the agricultural industry, together with vaccine testing and high land costs—those other things that Ms. MacTavish mentioned.
I'm wondering what your opinion is of the extent to which the Competition Bureau has been adequately examining these mergers, and whether you think there is an abuse of a dominant position. We've heard so many people before this committee speaking about Cargill owning cattle stock it can rely on if it chooses, which creates a bit of a captive market.
I'm wondering if you could comment on that, and also tell us what changes you think should be made to the Competition Act that would fortify the legislation and enable government to be more effective in helping farmers on that issue.
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
I had the experience recently of being interviewed by the Competition Bureau, but only on the matter of Agrium's purchase of CF Industries Holdings.
CAAR, per se, has not taken a position, but we have directed the Competition Bureau to the members within CAAR who have stated their opinion. I'm sure Ken could give you his.
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
I think anything that reduces the level of competition is something we obviously have issue with.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Before Mr. Clancy answers, why would your organization not take a position?
4:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
Some of those businesses are actually part of the mergers. It's like being part of a court case; we can't comment because our members are affected directly.
4:40 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
Certainly, from the fertilizer perspective in particular, there has been a lot of consolidation over the years. This is a family business. I haven't been involved for that long, but in the 10 or 15 years I have been involved, the number of potential companies we can buy from has dropped by probably a half.
At the same time, as production has decreased in North America and the producer numbers have shrunk, there has been a dramatic increase in imports of fertilizer into North America, so the market did not necessarily get that much less competitive by the reduction in the number of producers. We do see a lot of imported product coming in from China, as an example, and 10 years ago that did not exist. Russia is another example.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
In your presentation I believe you spoke of there being a captive market with the processors. That's what I was referring to when I spoke of Cargill. Do you think anything ought to be done in that area, and if so, what recommendations would you make?
4:45 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
Our organization does not have a formal position on that. I have personally been contacted by the Competition Bureau a number of times on different merger-related issues. In fact, I've even been contacted by a similar organization in the United States, looking at the potential Agrium-CF issue.
We're trying to look after the interests of our members, as agri-retailers. In terms of producers and large agricultural production entities, we don't really have a stance on that.
4:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
Many of those mergers are very small. If you're talking about Agrium-CF, it's very different from, say, Viterra purchasing Ross Agri in Alberta. I don't think the Competition Bureau is going to get down to that level of intervening in acquisitions.
4:45 p.m.
Chairman, Canadian Association of Agri-Retailers
I don't mean to contradict David, but you hear a lot of talk within the industry, and I did hear that the Competition Bureau was looking at one of the major takeovers in Alberta. That's just street talk.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Okay.
I have a final question. In terms of the use of vaccines and parasitic drugs, things like that, I know that every country has its own standards and wants to approve them so that they're satisfied of their safe, healthy use. Yet on a human scale, we see the problem that has arisen because of the H1N1 vaccine and the delay associated with making those vaccines available in Canada because, legitimately, our health care system was investigating.
Given the integration of the industry and the trade between countries, do you think there ought to be a world organization that everyone participates in—if there isn't one already that you might inform me of—that looks at all these medications and drugs and becomes satisfied they can be used, so we eliminate that as a barrier to trade?