Evidence of meeting #38 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pork.
A recording is available from Parliament.
November 5th, 2009 / 5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you. And thank you all for coming up and speaking to us.
Leza, I'm just curious, and I'm going to ask for short answers. You obviously speak for yourself and the other 30, at the very least, producers that are left in P.E.I. Are there any beyond P.E.I. on whose behalf you would be speaking today?
5:05 p.m.
Producer, Seaside Farms
I was invited as a producer. My understanding is that producers, for the vast part, in Atlantic Canada with the two programs that are there.... It's the small farm that we need to make changes for. Neither of the existing programs will help us.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Right.
Now, to a certain degree we face a challenge here. There's a certain degree of impotence, I think, that this committee suffers from because we're involved in a long-term investigation right now. Pierre, you spoke of some good ideas, opening up trade with other countries, that kind of thing, which is longer term, but what I'm hearing is that there's a need in the short term right now or it will be a complete collapse of this industry.
I'm going to challenge this committee to get together at some point in the very near future to sit down and make some short-term recommendations that we might take to the minister and say, “Look, there's an obvious need here.” I challenge any of us to sit here and not acknowledge this immediate need. We can give her all of the expressions of compassion that we want, but unless we respond to it immediately, all those expressions are, frankly, meaningless.
Jurgen, this is my question. What other short-term measures do you think might be undertaken, apart from fixing the anomaly with the APP and the HILLRP and all the other anomaly programs that are out there, and perhaps the other suggestion of enforcing bilingualism in anything that comes into the country? Can you think of any other solutions that we ought to bring to the minister?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian Pork Council
I think as important as any of those is AgriStability, the one that fixes the negative margin. That one does affect each and every one of our producers, and I really do believe it needs to be looked at.
The other fact is that if the loan program isn't working...and I'm not saying it isn't, because it's too early to tell. We need to ensure that it does work and that the money gets out quickly, because our feed industry.... As for my personal bill from my farm, thank goodness the feed mill is carrying us; otherwise I would be out of business. So I would like to pay that bill off.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
And would not having to pay back the amount outstanding under the APP go a long way to helping the farmers?
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Okay. Well, that may not be possible.
I do have one more question, if I can ask it. I want to narrow in on something you spoke about, and that was regulations.
I understand that under NAFTA, under anti-dumping regulations, we have a right to enforce minimum cost of production. I just need some explanation. Am I to understand clearly that right now the way we identify the minimum costs for American production leaves us at an amount that's too low and that those costs should be increased so we can avoid the dumping of their product into Canada? Can you expand on that?
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Pork Council
I'm probably not the right one to answer that.
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Pork Council
In the rough terms of the dumping rules, we're dumping as well, because we're selling below production costs and that's what dumping is. We actually investigated the pork coming in, because we were very strongly considering launching a dumping action, but do you know what? It's hard to find the evidence, and it becomes a really difficult challenge to make.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but it is hard to do.
5:10 p.m.
Producer, Seaside Farms
I'd like to say just one thing. For small farms, if you could change the APP conditions, that would work.
5:10 p.m.
President, Canada Pork International
I have a follow-up comment on the dumping issue.
Every four or five years, the pork industry dumps because of the cycle, so we sell below our cost of production. We have a huge problem with the other method of dumping, which is underselling. As Canadians, we always get the highest price that we can get for what we sell in our domestic market or our export market. We never undersell or dump. But maybe those things should be investigated for the meat that's coming in.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you.
I have just one comment. Jurgen, you made the comment that in essence we could be dumping here, but I think there's one distinct difference. We're not doing it intentionally. Would you not agree with that?
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
You said that in essence we were dumping into the States as well because we were putting it in there at less than the cost of production. My point is that we're not doing it deliberately, so to speak.
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Pork Council
Absolutely not. It's just, as Edouard said, that it's a fact of life that our cost of production is $1.55 and we get $0.95 or $1. Automatically it's below the cost of production, absolutely.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
No, but I would like to make one brief comment, before we wrap up the meeting.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
I'm going to thank the witnesses.
I'd like to thank all of you very much for coming here.
Leza, as a farmer, I can very much relate, and I know that my wife could very much as well if she were here. I think we are all aware of what farm women put into their enterprises and what have you. And if you were nervous today, it did not show. I can say that. You did very well.
Thanks to all of you for being here.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
André Bellavance Bloc Richmond—Arthabaska, QC
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Very briefly, I just want to come back to the suggestion that Mr. Shipley made at the start of the meeting, namely that we entertain the possibility of discussing the motions when we return. I just want your assurance that you will be here, because you are the best arbitrator that we have. I would like our chair to be on hand to discuss these motions.
If you can't be here on the 17th, since I would like to go along with Mr. Shipley's suggestion, I propose that we discuss the motions on the 19th. I just want to be certain that you will be here when we do debate them.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
At this point, Mr. Bellavance, as I indicated to you a couple of weeks ago, that's something that I'm not prepared to discuss openly. There is a chance that I may not be there, but at this point I will be, and that's all I can tell you.
The meeting is adjourned.