Agriculture Committee on March 3rd, 2009

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Do you--

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Sorry, Mr. Shipley, your time is up. I turn it over to Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have two types of questions. My first question would be to the NFU, and I would ask you to answer within two minutes. My next question, for three minutes, is for someone who knows the programs.

Could the NFU comment on the statements made by James Bezan earlier?

[Grant Robertson]

I'd be quite happy to do so. I absolutely can't believe that at this time and place you would question the patriotism and the honour of an organization that has spent its entire time dedicated to family farmers.

What happened was, there was a meeting of beef industry leaders, farm groups from Mexico, the United States, and Canada. One of the people who happened to be there was from R-CALF. That was it. We found out R-CALF was speaking on captive supply--something you say you now agree with R-CALF on--saying there needs to be something done around captive supply. Maybe you are not surprised that you might be able to agree on something with R-CALF, but the NFU found it quite surprising that we could find something to agree with R-CALF on, and that was captive supply. That's what those comments are.

It's absolutely beyond me that you would play these silly political games around this kind of stuff when we have a real thing. We have seventy-year-old people who are continuing to farm, not because they want to but because they can't get out of the industry. There's no way they can get out. If they try to get out they're going to lose everything. The only thing they can hope to do is hang on and lose a little bit at a time. Yet you want to play these silly little political games.

We have young people who can't take over farming--

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

There are rules of procedure. Is he taking up my time?

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I'll adjust for that.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake, MB]

There are rules of procedure that say that witnesses have to address the committee with proper respect, and I'm not hearing that respect right now. I do ask that you call them to order based upon chapter 20 of Marleau and Monpetit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

I think Mr. Robertson has made his point, and I turn it back to Mr. Eyking for questioning.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Let's talk about helping farmers and getting money into their pockets. My question is about some of the programs the government should be doing immediately.

My first question is for whoever among the witnesses best knows the programs. Should the viability test be changed? My other question is, should the option of the better of the Olympic average or the previous three-year average be used for reference margin calculation? Which one should it be? Or should it be the better of the AgriStability Tier 1 or the AgriInvest? For the programs I have alluded to, what should be changed immediately, and what reference margins should be used?

[Fred Tait]

If you were to look at the graph in the opening of our brief that showed the price of cattle from the 1930s up until 2008, you would take that piece from 2003 up until 2008, and then you would overlay that with a farm support program that is based on 70% of that price. You would see a farm support program that would have a net that was far below the returns that were given to us during the Great Depression by the marketplace. The reason we can't have an adequate farm safety net is because it would compromise our trade. You can't have this push, push for trade and then negotiate into the WTO. It's right in the text: the farm support program shall not be more than 70% of the five-year moving average. Move the highest and lowest off that equation.

As long as you insist that trade is the answer, there are no solutions to our economic problems domestically. It's that simple.

[Ed Fossen]

I'd like to comment on the reference margins. I think they should be dropped. The whole program is too cumbersome, too bureaucratic, and it's not paying out. There is something basically wrong with the program.

The other point about AgriInvest and some of these programs where cattle ranchers are supposed to come up with money and matching funds--that's a joke. There's no way a cattle producer, a family owned ranch or cattle producer, could come up with matching funds right now. I know that for sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

I come back to you, Mr. Fossen. You're in the business--and I know the trade; let's not talk about the trade. How can we help beef producers immediately, in the next few months?

[Ed Fossen]

In my opinion, because we're exporting over half our animals, we have to somehow get the country-of-origin labelling implemented in a balanced way.

I think you can make the new programs simpler, more straightforward, and less bureaucratic, because I don't know if some people can even fill out the forms and handle it. Some straightforward help right now would be great.

In my mind, the biggest thing on the horizon right now is to get the country-of-origin labelling settled in a balanced way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Mr. Fossen.

Mr. Hoback, five minutes.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've been sitting here digesting everything that's been said. We have some very different philosophies and very different ways of doing business being proposed around this table. It's definitely going to create some confusion and some things for us, the committee, to digest.

You can clarify this for me, Mr. Robertson. Jan Slomp is quoted as saying, “I totally understand and defend R-CALF in public now. We need to be allies with R-CALF.” Is he a representative of the NFU, and did he say that?

[Grant Robertson]

What they are talking about is on captive supply--

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

I didn't say that. I'm asking what they're talking about. Did he say that?

[Grant Robertson]

On captive supply, he said there can be some work together.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

No, no. Again, did he say that?

[Grant Robertson]

On captive supply, he said there could be some work together, that as we Canadians move forward to try to get a handle on captive supply, R-CALF won't be a problem, as they have been on many other issues.

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

Okay. What has been reported and what has been quoted by R-CALF is not anything on captive supply. It's very blunt that you're looking like you're aligning with R-CALF, and by doing that, you've given credibility to an organization that we say has no credibility. You've actually undermined our position with COOL in the U.S. You did it at such a time when things were sensitive. The damage you've done to the western Canadian industry is huge. The damage you've done to the Canadian industry is huge. That is what Mr. Bezan was getting at.

I don't think he's questioning your patriotism or anything else. I just want you to realize that when you go about doing things as careless as that, they have consequences, and the consequences could cost more than 40 bucks a head or 100 bucks a head. It costs 200 bucks a head, 500 bucks a head. It could take my neighbour Dan Cyr and throw him out of business. That's what I'm trying to point out to you,

[Grant Robertson]

Maybe you should engage in a little less careless reading, then, because the release from R-CALF is specifically talking about captive supply. That's what it says in the release, that it is around the issue. Those people in the conference, during the conference, expressed surprise--not to R-CALF--that R-CALF might actually not get in the way of something we want to do for our industry in Canada. That's the reality.

You can spin it every way you want, but you have people across this country who are going to lose their farms and you want to play political games.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Mr. Robertson, please address your comments through me and stick to the answer. It is Mr. Hoback's five minutes.

[Grant Robertson]

He was addressing me.