Evidence of meeting #18 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farm.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Mike Nowosad  Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council
Ken Lancastle  Communications and Marketing Manager, Canadian 4-H Council
Ashley Knapton  Canadian 4-H Council
Gillian MacDougall  Vice-president, Youth Advisory Committee, Canadian 4-H Council

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

I'm going to call our meeting to order.

This is one of those days, with my farming background, that I'd sooner be outside than in here, but anyway, it's what we have to do.

It's a pleasure today to have members here from Canadian 4-H Council, as part of our study right now on the future of agriculture and young farmers in general.

It's great to have you come here today, especially at short notice. I understand our two young ladies are in 4-H. I was involved in 4-H as my kids were growing up, so I know the importance of 4-H and what it means to development. So thanks again for being here.

Mr. Nowosad, I'll turn it over to you.

3:30 p.m.

Mike Nowosad Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council

Thanks very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks for the opportunity to speak to all of you today about young farmers and the future of farming from the perspective of the 4-H program in Canada.

We've been given 10 minutes for our presentation, but for those of you who are former 4-H'ers and know the art of public speaking, once our 4-H members start talking it might be difficult to stop them talking. But we'll try to keep within the timelines.

l'd like to start off by introducing my colleagues who will be participating in today's presentation.

Ashley Knapton is a 4-H member from Almonte, Ontario. Her family's dairy farm started six years ago, and they milk 20 purebred Holstein cattle.

For those of you in the dairy industry, you might think we're stacking it up for the dairy industry, because we also have Gillian MacDougall here. She is a current 4-H member, vice-president of the Quebec 4-H Council. She is vice-chair of the Canadian 4-H Council youth advisory committee, and she is currently between studies at university and is helping out on her family dairy farm near Ormstown, Quebec. And before the questions come, they have Holstein and Jersey.

On Gillian's left is Ken Lancastle. He is the communications and marketing manager of the Canadian 4-H Council.

We were invited to do our presentation on Friday, so I've been polling colleagues from across the country. The thoughts we are going to share with you have been compiled from feedback we've received from some of our stakeholders across the country. They include our 4-H members, 4-H leaders, 4-H sponsors, and they include friends of 4-H. It's a wide cross-section of who, in fact, we've gleaned some information from.

I'm going to turn it over now to Ken Lancastle, to talk about 4-H a little bit.

3:30 p.m.

Ken Lancastle Communications and Marketing Manager, Canadian 4-H Council

Thanks very much for having us here today, guys.

As one of Canada's premier youth leadership organizations, 4-H serves more than 26,000 members across Canada between the ages of 5 and 21. The 4-H program itself, as many of you might know, began in the late 1800s in the United States. In an effort to teach new and innovative farming practices, university extension agents looked to youth as the future for growth and development in the agricultural industry.

In Canada, the 4-H program began in 1913 in Roland, Manitoba, and it has since had more than two million Canadian youth take part in the program. For almost 100 years, the 4-H program has had a proud legacy of creating Canada's agricultural and non-agricultural leaders.

The Canadian 4-H Council, which we represent, began in 1933 to oversee 4-H in Canada. As a council, we've endeavoured to find out the importance of the 4-H program and how members benefit from their involvement.

In a recent study done about four years ago, we surveyed 4-H alumni and found out a number of really important findings, that 40% of all 4-H alumni currently work in an agriculture-related job; 82% of the alumni with a secondary school education, which was 22% of those surveyed, grow or produce agricultural products; overall, 31% of all 4-H alumni have a bachelor's degree or higher, versus 18% of the 2006 Canadian population; and 43% of 4-H alumni have had household incomes of $50,000 to $99,000, versus 32% of the 2006 Canadian population. Another 16% of those surveyed had household incomes of $100,000 or more.

We're very proud of these statistics. It's clear that 4-H plays a critical role in developing these future leaders of agriculture.

3:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council

Mike Nowosad

Now I'm going to turn it over to Ashley. She's going to tell you a little bit about her 4-H background, as well as a little bit about her family's background in terms of entering agriculture.

3:30 p.m.

Ashley Knapton Canadian 4-H Council

As Mike said, my name is Ashley Knapton. I am currently in my first year studying agriculture at the University of Guelph. I've been a 4-H member for 11 years. I've done a wide variety of projects, everything from dairy to dairy judging as well as other stuff, like craft or rabbit club. I've been able to have countless opportunities to go to various leadership camps and educational seminars through 4-H, and it has helped me get my current job. I am currently working as an agronomy assistant. I work in the crop sector, scouting fields for weeds and crop populations.

My family entered the dairy industry just over six years ago. It took us 10 years to purchase our quota. Mom and Dad shipped cream back when they first got married, and then once the cream quota left they decided they wanted to ship cows. But because quota was so expensive, with the other start-up costs--retrofitting a barn, purchasing quality animals--they had to wait over 10 years. We finally got the money and we purchased 12 kilos of quota. We now have 16.5, and we'd like to expand to 20, but unfortunately, due to our current quota loans, we are unable.

It's been a long road--Mom and Dad are still working off the farm--but I think it's worth it.

3:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council

Mike Nowosad

That's kind of an interesting comment from Ashley--I hadn't met her before this afternoon--that her parents didn't buy their quota till they were...how old, 38 or 39?

3:30 p.m.

Canadian 4-H Council

3:30 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council

Mike Nowosad

So you'd consider them new farmers, which is kind of interesting.

I'm now going to turn it over to Gillian, who's going to tell you a bit about her family background. But also, as Gillian is a member of our youth advisory committee, she's going to talk to you a bit about reaching youth, and what youth--or generation Y, actually--is all about these days.

Over to you, Gillian.

3:30 p.m.

Gillian MacDougall Vice-president, Youth Advisory Committee, Canadian 4-H Council

My name is Gillian. I grew up on a dairy farm. We have Jerseys in southwest Quebec. I'm from Ormstown. I am the fourth child out of five in my family, and only one of my siblings is going into agriculture. My little brother is still in high school, so he has a chance, but he probably won't. So there you go: we only have one person out of the five kids going into agriculture.

So I grew up on a dairy farm, and both my parents work on the farm. They're full-time farmers. I've chosen to not go into agriculture partly because of seeing my parents; it's a big commitment, a full-time job. My dad doesn't get weekends, doesn't get time off. He goes out to the barn at night to check the cows, different things like that. It's a full-time job. It's not something I want to do.

But last summer, and now this summer, I've been working at the Agriculture Museum just beside Dow's Lake. That has given me the great experience--something that I've brought from 4-H--to share agriculture with other people. So 4-H has given me all sorts of different ways to see agriculture that's not just the Jersey farm that my parents work on. It has given me all sorts of different things.

I grew up showing dairy calves, mostly Jerseys. I showed one Brown Swiss one summer. But I've also done square dancing, judging, public speaking, life skills, handicrafts--all sorts of stuff like that.

Provincially, 4-H has offered me many different options, including opportunities to go out and see different types of agriculture in my area and around Quebec. In Quebec, we have an “innovative ag” tour. It's held in different regions every year, and we go there to see different things. We see dairy farms, we see dairy farms with sheep, we see bull testation farms, we see alpacas. We get to see a lot of different things that you wouldn't normally see, and we also get to see how different people got into agriculture. So it really opens up your opportunities and kind of shows you the different things you can do.

With Quebec 4-H we have provincial rallies. There, all the 4-H projects get to come, whether you're an agriculture project or a life skills project. Again, all the members get introduced to all the different animals--horse, dairy, and so on. It's really nice, because coming from my area, it's a lot of dairy, but at the provincial rally every summer you get to see the beef, you get to see the horses, the rabbits, and everything.

We also have a senior member weekend, which is for members from 16 to 21. It's a weekend that's a bit special for the senior members, a bit of a thank you. We also try to get speakers in to talk about different things in agriculture, different opportunities, different jobs. We try not to just talk about going home and milking on your dairy farm. 4-H has really opened up opportunities for young people to see different types of farms.

There are national programs that I've been a part of or have seen. We have interprovincial youth exchanges. I was lucky enough to go to Saskatchewan and spend a week on a beef ranch, which took me into a different setting in agriculture. There's also the Garfield Weston U.K .exchange My family hosted a delegate from the U.K., and we got to learn about how they farm, their different opportunities.

I'd like to quickly go over a presentation we did last year as the youth advisory committee. We were looking at 4-H and where the 4-H members are going. We're having some trouble retaining some of the older members. We want to keep them interested, and we're trying to see the difference between the people who are in 4-H and those who aren't and try to figure out why they're not in 4-H.

But most of these people...and it's the same with what we're looking at now for young farmers. You want the future of agriculture. Generally they're born between the 1980s and the turn of the millennium. This age group will be entering the agriculture industry in the next 10 years.

Now, a lot has changed for this generation--i.e., technology, the demographics of Canada, and an increase in environmental awareness and sustainability. One of the big things they're pushing is the “green-loving”, so you're talking about the ten-mile diet and recycling in schools. Organic is a really big thing now. You go to the grocery store and it always says “organic”. That's what a lot of people will go for if they don't understand the difference between organic and what's not organic.

We're communication obsessed. It's a really big thing. Whether it's Facebook, Twitter, e-mail, cellphone, or MSN, there's no shortage of ways we can connect to each other.

I know that Quebec 4-H has a lot of our activities on Facebook to say what's coming up and say what's happening, because we know that's where our members are. We try to get people in by putting pictures up, different things like that, because we know that a lot of young people use it.

In terms of the current demographics, generally speaking, the people entering agriculture are people who have grown up on farms. They come from an agricultural background, so they're from the area; they have parents and family. That's a big part. The people entering agriculture are the people who came from it.

In terms of the demographics of those who are not entering agriculture, generally speaking they don't find agriculture to be a glamorous job. And in some ways it's not. You don't get weekends off, you have to get up to check the cows, and different things like that. They don't think they'll be able to make money, which is really important. They feel they don't understand enough about agriculture to become involved. And that is one of the really key roles of 4-H.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Gillian, could just slow down a bit for the interpreters?

3:35 p.m.

Vice-president, Youth Advisory Committee, Canadian 4-H Council

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

No, that's okay.

3:35 p.m.

Vice-president, Youth Advisory Committee, Canadian 4-H Council

Gillian MacDougall

It doesn't matter if you're from a farm, a town, or the city; anyone can join 4-H and learn about agriculture. They can join a calf club or join any club. They can get the experience of agriculture and be introduced to it.

What we can do to encourage youth involvement in agriculture is get them in 4-H--it's very important--and also diverse job opportunities. If you can get different jobs available in the agriculture field for people, stuff that would be open to people who aren't just from farms, you'd get more people interested. You'd give these people experience as well.

Promoting the importance of agriculture is also important. Some people don't think about how important it is because they don't get their food straight from the farm. They go to the grocery store to get their food. So it's important to promote it as a lifestyle.

There are a couple of ways we can retain youth involvement in agriculture. Offer support to new and young farmers so they're not just people who are finishing their diplomas or degrees in agriculture; they're also people who are changing their lifestyles and their employment and becoming farmers.

Promoting agriculture as an area of academic study is also really important. You want to be able to give people the knowledge and tools to become successful farmers. You give people the chance to learn about new tools and different ways to become farmers, make money, and make it work. Otherwise people try and fail and quit, or they don't try at all because they don't know.

Promoting diversity of careers in agriculture, and particularly production, is also very important. You want to talk about different things. You want to talk about production--being there, raising livestock, raising crops, and things like that. It's also important to have a bit of diversity, such as research, and the different options, sales and so on, are also important.

3:40 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council

Mike Nowosad

Whew! I'm tired just listening to you there, Gillian.

I'm going to close things out here by talking about two things. First, what can 4-H do to encourage young people to enter into agriculture as farmers, and second, what can the Government of Canada do to do the same thing? We have some suggestions for the committee today.

Currently 4-H is facing similar problems with agriculture in that rather than facing an acute shortage of young farmers, we're facing an acute loss of 4-H members. To that end, we've developed a number of programs that directly and indirectly support AAFC's business development objective of providing for enhanced participation by young or new entrants and first nations clients.

I'll give you a couple of examples. I don't know whether you want me to elaborate on them. I'll name some of the programs, and perhaps you can ask questions afterwards.

We have one called the RBC 4-H rural-urban youth outreach program. As the name states, we're reaching out into urban centres to teach people about agriculture.

In the summer of 2011, we're going to be introducing the business development opportunities on-farm mentorship program, which is a partnership with Canada's Outstanding Young Farmers, where young people interested in going into agriculture, agricultural production, will spend two weeks on the farms of some of the winners of Canada's Outstanding Young Farmers to learn how it's done.

We currently have on our website a “Careers on the Grow” job board on which we're encouraging our stakeholders to advertise in terms of careers in agriculture.

For the last three years, we've been running an aboriginal 4-H program. We see urban centres, as well as the aboriginal youth community, as markets for 4-H.

In addition, one of the things we have identified that we need to do in terms of moving forward is to expand our partnerships with the Canadian deans of agriculture and veterinary medicine. In fact, I made a presentation to that group last week, and we're looking at partnering with them. The University of Guelph, for example, is piloting a project where there will be a university credit for becoming a 4-H leader.

As I said, we are partnering with Canada's Outstanding Young Farmers program, as well as with the Canadian Young Farmers' Forum.

We kind of see ourselves as the apprenticeship for young farmers, basically. We think our members will become Canada's outstanding young farmers or members of the Canadian Young Farmers' Forum.

I don't have to tell you about rural demographics these days. We see the growth of 4-H and the growth of agriculture in terms of reaching out into urban centres. That's a priority for us.

We would like to see ourselves develop a national strategy to partner with agriculture in the classroom. We see that as a critical element in respect to teaching kids about agriculture. As Gillian alluded to, we need to use means of communication for networking with youth. It's important that we're communicating with Twitter, Facebook, etc.

One of the things we see is that 4-H members like Ashley and Gillian will show cattle; they'll show a dairy cow for seven years of their 4-H program. By the time they get to be about 17 or 18 years of age, they've passed that stage. So what we need to do is develop programming for senior 4-H members that includes components of starting up a farm, writing a business plan, sharing different market ideas, or an “ask a professional” night that could cover technological advancements such as genomics or get into advancements in specific commodity production such as vegetable growing; beef production; sheep production; bioenergy production, in terms of hemp, corn, etc.; or transition, one market to another, or part time to full time. The key to this would be to include a major business component to all of these. We could have club weekend events, an intensive two- or three-day event with workshops, seminars, etc.

Now I'll just turn to some thoughts that we've shared with some of our colleagues across the country on what the Government of Canada can do to attract young people into primary production.

First of all, we think it would be a good idea to develop a new, crisp, clear vision for Canadian agriculture, focused on young people. Young people want, need, and respond to a vision that they can buy into and something that they believe can deliver the probability of a positive future. I think the greatest thing the Government of Canada can do is develop this vision and share it so that youth get behind it and grow with it.

We should be able to do that. Look at what Canadian agriculture has to offer: some of the highest-quality food products in the world; some of the sharpest, most committed producers in the world; world-class processors, although there are just not enough of them; a world-respected regulatory system; one of the most pristine natural environments in the world, with an abundance of fresh air and fresh water; and productive land that is the envy of the world.

Really, the focus needs to be on youth, because this is the generation that's going to be out in the field, if you will. I think the government needs to communicate this vision as well as implement support programs for beginning farmers using new social marketing technologies, but I won't beat that one to death. Government can promote the number of elements involved in agriculture beyond production and ensure that agricultural educational programming is in place for youth. The purpose of today's hearing is basically to talk about production; you have production, but there are other aspects of agriculture where you're going to need young people going into the business.

Government can continue to provide financial support for programs that focus on science, technology, and innovation in agriculture. That is a critical element. We can't be left behind in terms of science, technology, and innovation.

Government can seize upon the interest in locally grown food in all parts of Canada, especially in urban centres. I was reading the Ottawa Citizen today, and they're talking about people raising chickens in their backyards. There's an interest there. Vancouver, I believe, has the highest concentration of rooftop and empty-lot gardens in Canada right now. There's an opportunity for us to seize and for the Government of Canada to seize in educating young people about what a cool business agriculture is.

Government can research approaches and programs being used in other countries to encourage young people to enter farming and develop them as models for Canada. This was a suggestion made by one of my colleagues who was formerly with the Department of Agriculture. As an example, in New Zealand they have a popular production-sharing program in the dairy and livestock industry that is helping many young people to establish their own farms under the guidance of the current farm owners. This is just an example. There are probably other examples in other parts of the world.

You've been out west, and I think you heard from a number of young farmers and a number of groups what some of the issues are. They include addressing barriers to getting into agriculture, such as start-up costs and financing. One thing Ashley didn't tell you about her parents is that they got their quota six years ago and they're still working full time off the farm as well as running the farm. That's a significant commitment.

There's a lack of knowledge of the industry and the opportunities that exist. We can help you with that, in terms of creating awareness.

In terms of succession, government can review programs that perhaps don't go far enough in recognizing the needs of first-time entrants into agriculture. For example, the government guarantee for land purchases under the Canadian Agricultural Loans Act is limited to 15 years. In speaking with one of my colleagues about this, I've realized 15 years just might not be enough to cut it; perhaps it should be 25 years.

In conclusion, the Canadian agricultural industry is a vital component of the Canadian economy. The industry accounted for 8% of the total Canadian GDP in 2005. It provides one out of every eight jobs. It employs nearly 2.1 million people. The agriculture and agrifood system has been growing at an average rate of 2.4% per year over the past decade.

At the same time that the industry is experiencing this growth, there are also challenges appearing ahead. In particular, the agriculture industry needs to attract and retain a new generation of producers, and that's why we're here today. This is becoming more apparent, as the number of producers under the age of 35 is declining faster than in any other age range. In fact, from 2001 to 2006 the number of farm operators under the age of 35 decreased by 25% across Canada. That's not a good statistic.

To address that growing gap and the need for younger farm operators, the 4-H program in Canada can play a valuable and significant role. Young people interested in agriculture see it as a career with opportunity. They may be interested because their parents or grandparents were producers, but today's young farmer is a business person.

I won't ask those of you who are former 4-H members to say the pledge, but I'll refer to what the four Hs stand for: head, heart, health, and hands. Today's young farmers may enter the field with hearts and hands, but in their heads they need to feel there is a healthy future for them.

We have gone over our time, but thank you very much for the opportunity to make this presentation.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Thank you very much.

It's very obvious, Ashley and Gillian, that 4-H has helped both of you with your public speaking abilities. We appreciate your being here.

Ashley, the committee was at the University of Guelph on Monday; I think we even temporarily lost a couple of our members there, but we got them back.

We'll now turn it over to Mr. Easter for seven minutes.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Was that a couple of lost Conservatives, Mr. Chair?

3:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

No, I'd say--

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Not a lost Liberal, I hope.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Larry Miller

Actually, the resident MP was one of them, so....

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON

There's nothing better than to be lost in Guelph.

3:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Listen, folks, thank you very much for coming and for your presentation.

I think if you polled quite a number of MPs around here, especially rural MPs, you would find that a lot of them were in the 4-H. I was in the 4-H. You mentioned Jerseys; I was in the North Wiltshire Jersey 4-H Club.

I guess that's why I'm quiet and docile, on account of the Jerseys.

In any event, the programs that the 4-H does you do need to be congratulated on, everything from public speaking to 4-H shows. I'm not sure where the national speakers competition is at now, at the Canadian National Exhibition....

I've been there three or four times, but not lately. Is that still on?

3:50 p.m.

Chief Executive Officer, Canadian 4-H Council

Mike Nowosad

We've actually partnered with Canadian Young Speakers for Agriculture. Through AFC funding we're supporting them to do their public speaking competition at the Royal Winter Fair each year.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

That's a great program.

In any event, on this tour that the committee has been on, there certainly is a fairly strong concern about how we get young people in the industry. You mentioned some of them--all of you did--in your comments.

The other thing that is clearly showing through is that profitability is an absolute requirement. The current safety net programs are not working. We heard a lot of criticism of AgriStability.

What do you think has to be done at the federal level in terms of its support for 4-H itself and in terms of assisting people, not just young people?

Ashley, you mentioned your parents. They're not exactly young, but they're not exactly old either. Still, they are new people coming into the industry.

So what do you propose in that area to assist people to get into this industry?

The last point I would make, Mike, is to you. You mentioned education in the classroom informing both urban and rural Canadians. What do you propose in that area that the federal government can be doing to help in that area?

Those are my three questions.