Agriculture Committee on May 12th, 2010

[Dela Erinth]

We're not working on a level playing field.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Exactly.

[Dela Erinth]

It's just not happening, and it's getting worse.

Mark, would you like to share your information?

We can see from this proposal in New York to put in a replant program that it's going to have a significant impact on us. We, as Canadians, have to decide whether we are going to respect agriculture as a service to this country--Cammie said it--and as an essential service to this country.

We don't recognize that, and if we don't, we are going to be picking it up from wherever we can get it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Allen, we have you for five minutes.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to all.

I come from a fruit-growing area. I come from the Niagara Peninsula. We also have a research station, and we just about lost it, as I was explaining this morning.

I know what growers tell me in the area. The most recent one was clingstone peaches. We lost the last cannery east of the Rocky Mountains, and we tore out clingstone peaches. Clingstone peaches, basically, are canned peaches. That's why we called them clingstone. They're easy to can. They process more easily, at the end of the day, rather than having to be handled by hand. They're almost non-existent in Niagara now. There are a few who kept them. The rest pulled them out.

Do you have a sense, because you're in fruit, of where you see the fruit industry going? I'll let you answer that. Then I'll go to Tom on what you are doing and how you are looking offshore for fewer inputs compared to what folks do in the organic sense. I'm interested in hearing something about that.

I'll let Dela and Brian do that piece first.

[Dela Erinth]

The Canadian tree-fruit industry--I can only speak to the tree-fruit industry--is struggling from one region to the next. I can say that in Nova Scotia we are definitely maintaining our own. We are definitely on a higher level than some of the other provinces. That's because of the concerted effort by the growers of this province to move themselves forward in a very competitive marketplace. We've lost a lot of our processing capability, which has a very negative impact on the industry. If we don't keep up with the science and technology that's going on in the rest of the world, we're going to lose that competitive advantage completely--instantly.

We must stay current and move forward all the time. To do that, we need support. We need help. We can't do it all on our own, because there's not enough profit coming back at the farm gate. More of the consumer's dollar needs to come back to the farm gate. If it does, you won't have such a problem with new entrants, because there will be a lot of new entrants if they can see that there's a way to make money and survive the way any other Canadian business can.

[Brian Boates]

I guess all I would add to that is that as an industry, we've been doing innovation to increase the growers' returns. But I am very concerned about increased labour, increased fuel, and increased input costs. Whether our innovation is increasing at a level that will cover those costs is a really challenging question.

[Torin Buzek]

I'll explain more about low external inputs and things we've learned mainly from third-world countries by example. We don't use a tractor, and we lower petroleum input to almost nothing. It's very much more labour-intensive. And everything on the farm tends to have a dual purpose. Our goats provide manure for our rare-breed vegetable plot. In turn, the byproducts in the vegetable plot will feed our goats. We do zero-till planting, so we don't need that tractor. It's very labour-intensive. Everything is done by hand. Basically, we're reducing things coming into the farm to almost nothing.

[Malcolm Allen, NDP, Welland, ON]

Mark, you talked about what I call the convenience sell--I think you used the same term. No offence, but it's akin to going to McDonald's as a kid, when I didn't want to wait more than 45 seconds to get fed. Is this really a direction you think we should go in, as a farmer, or is this an issue that this is how we're going to have to make money as farmers, in the end? Is this really...?

I have concerns as a consumer. To be honest with you, I'm not so keen on buying a bag of salad that's travelled halfway across the North American continent to get to me, albeit in season I can get it locally for sure in Ontario.

So I'm interested in your thoughts as a primary producer. As a consumer, should I really be headed down that path, or should I be looking at doing what my mother used to do, which was to buy a head of lettuce and buy some carrots and radishes and make her own salad?

[Mark Sawler]

My comment was that it would be great, but you're not in the majority. You're in the minority if you're making your own. The reality is that most people are doing it. I'm not saying what they're doing is right or wrong, but the reality is they are. And if we say that it's wrong or good or that we shouldn't do it and we're going to move in the other direction and try to convince people not to do it, then we're giving up access in that market, and then the market and the revenue base for farming will be smaller.

I'm not saying whether it's for us to make money or profit, I'm just saying the revenue base or the industry size is smaller. The reality is, there are a lot of convenience products being sold in the marketplace. They are prominently displayed because that's where these retailers are making a fair amount of money. They're prominently displaying the fresh-cut fruit and the salads. And if you listen to them, that's their fastest-growing category.

So we can say all we want about whether we think it's right or wrong, but the point is, the consumers make the choices. The consumer is making that choice now.

And the question is, what do we do about it? That's a fair question, but it's there and the consumer is choosing it. That was my comment to it. And if that's what they're looking for, if that's what... If we do not produce a product the consumer wants, it doesn't matter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, thank you, Mark.

We'll now move to Mr. Armstrong, for five minutes.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

I want to thank you all for your presentations today and taking the time to be with us.

We've heard several recurring themes throughout the day--access to capital, profitability, protection of supply management, access to markets--but one of the things that was emphasized in this session was research. I think you brought it up first, Danny, so I'll give you the first chance to comment and then I'll put it out to others.

Looking at expansion of markets, protection of our local food, and maybe expanding into new products, do you believe that the continued support of the Kentville Agricultural Research Station and the Nova Scotia Agricultural College and other federal and provincial investments in research in this area is pivotal as we move to the future of farming in Nova Scotia?

[Danny Davison]

Yes, thanks for the question.

Absolutely. Dela and Brian are probably a little closer these days to the research that goes on at the research station in Kentville, especially Dela as the representative of the Fruit Growers' Association. But as a producer, again I always hearken back to the profitability issue. If part of profitability is keeping your input costs under control on the farm, a very important part of that in the apple industry, which is one of the things we do on our farm, is knowing the rates of what products at what time for what insect, pathogen, fungus, or whatever is going to do the job to allow you to produce the quality of fruit that you can eventually sell at a reasonable price, wherever your market is.

I know certainly in the past, and I'm sure currently, at the research station in Kentville, the information that has come out of Kentville in terms of rates and types of product, and all those sorts of things has been very important. If that helps maintain the profitability on the farm by reducing some of your costs, then it's absolutely important. Whether it's out of Kentville, the Nova Scotia Agricultural College, Nappan, or whatever local station, yes, it's very important.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Does anyone else want to comment on that?

[Phillip Keddy]

I'll comment on that.

On our farm we grow certified nursery plants and we work very closely with the Kentville Research Station, especially Andrew Jamieson, their plant breeder. Over the years, Kentville has had quite a few very successful varieties, which we still now grow in our certified fields. Kentville has done very well breeding new strains of strawberry plants to fit our Atlantic climate. We kind of need them in this area because plants that do well here don't necessarily do well out west or on the west coast. We need to be close to our research facility so it can work with the farmers in this area to help our fruit industry and help to generate more money in that way. Over the years, they've got royalties on these plants, which is a way of kind of putting money back into the system, not solely relying on government but kind of self-sustaining. I see that as a very positive way to keep the money going in that direction.

[Scott Armstrong, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thank you.

I think it was Mr. Davison who talked about a tax rebate system. Can you expand a bit on that, the potential that lies there for us?

[Danny Davison]

Yes. I wouldn't be very good at articulating probably exactly how it would work, but I know the idea has been floated. I'm involved in the provincial Federation of Agriculture, and I know the idea has been floated. We had a three-year or four-year process that ended this past year. It was originated by Kelco Consulting in Kentville, a study that looked at how to get a reasonable rate of return back to primary production. The idea that it was originally based on was some kind of a levy at the retail level. I think it started with pork and maybe some involvement in beef and apples.

It was only going to be a matter of a few cents on the retail price that would have meant a large sum of money that could have been returned to primary producers. Of course, whenever you talk about levy, tax, or whatever, it gets bogged down at the higher levels, political levels, because it is very unpopular, obviously, to raise any taxes.

The flip side of that was this idea of some kind of a rebate to retailers, so for every pound or kilogram of product that they had on their store shelves and that they sold, the provincial government--again I'm more familiar with provincial politics than federal--there'd be some sort of a rebate of the tax back to the retailer to make it more encouraging for them to do it. At the same time, the economic activity within the province in rural Nova Scotia, in terms of more food production and more local produce being sold, would generate, hopefully, an equal or greater amount of tax revenue for the province so that it would be more palatable than the food levy type of system the discussion started out with.

Either way, whatever the system turned out to be, I think ultimately it's very important to get more money back to primary producers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you, Mr. Armstrong.

We'll now move to Mr. Easter for five minutes.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you folks for coming.

First in the research area, like much of agriculture programming, we went to basically a national system. You have a micro-climate here. Private industry is doing its own research for its own profit in most cases, and targets most of their research for midwest United States, so that's not going to do either me in P.E.I. or you much good, especially in the micro-climate you have here.

What's happening with research? In many areas we're seeing attrition take the old researchers out, and they're not being replaced. What's happening with research here in Kentville?

[Dela Erinth]

Perhaps I can answer that.

Canada has decimated the research system over the last ten years. If you read the Auditor General's report, which I'm sure you have, you will know the same story, and we agree with that story. We are extremely concerned about succession planning at the Kentville station. As I've said twice already, without the Kentville station, Nova Scotia's agriculture, especially the horticulture sector, is out of business, and that won't take very long. We have had some encouraging communication with the research centre recently. They've set up what they call a RRUM, which is like an advisory committee to the station. This is an encouraging communication effort on their part. They are saying that the station will stay. We are not totally convinced that this is the case.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I think a lot of it is spin to cover their asses, to put it bluntly.

[Dela Erinth]

Unfortunately, we have experienced, over the last number of years, talk and not the same action. It doesn't happen at ground level, as it's said at the 40,000-foot level.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Has any research been done for the long term? What I'm finding in the research area is that because we're looking at matching dollars from the corporate sector, it's short-term research, with a five- to six-year timeframe on which they can return profits on their investment. We used to do discovery research 10 to 20 years out. Is that happening?

[Dela Erinth]

It's the McDonald's effect. Everything has to be done in 45 seconds or two years. That's not good enough. We need to have long-term research. We need to have primary production research re-established. It has to be multidisciplinary and it has to be regional, because you can't expect to have apples that have been developed on the west coast grow perfectly well on the east coast. We don't have the same climate conditions; our environment is different.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I have one other question I want to get in.

I think it was you, Brian, who said you are asked to provide on-farm food safety. CFIA is now asking you to move up to food plant standards. What we're finding in Canada is that we're being asked to meet standards when, as somebody else mentioned earlier, we're competing against lower wages or cheap labour and lower environmental standards around the world. I would suggest that our corporate concentration at the retail level in this country is such that they, with their Walmart-like depots now, are using the lower environmental standards and lower wage costs elsewhere around the world to lever our prices down or to shut us out of the market altogether.

I'd ask you to comment on that, because we have to decide in this country whether we want farmers or not, and that decision has to be made collectively—federally and provincially. Every government of every political stripe, in my view, at the moment, federally and provincially, is just as bad as the other. There's no federal leadership, from my point of view.

So what can we do in that area to change that factor? We're not going to have a farming community left; it's that simple. We've seen what happened to hogs and beef in this area.