Agriculture Committee on May 12th, 2010

[Phillip Keddy, Western Director, Nova Scotia Young Farmers Forum]

I am a member of the Nova Scotia Young Farmers Forum, but a lot of my views and what I say will come from me as a young farmer in the industry, and having a couple of friends around my age in the industry too.

I really like being part of the Nova Scotia Young Farmers Forum. As a provincial group, we try to talk to everybody and bring issues and problems from our province to the national board, then try to work together, networking to get through the problems we're facing.

I grew up on a family farm with my parents and I'm a full-time employee there now. From a young age I made a conscious decision that I loved agriculture and that I wanted to farm for the rest of my life. After university, four years ago, I came back and started farming full-time with my parents.

It's been within the last year that I've spent a lot more time in the office, kind of looking at the books and stuff, because that will have a drastic toll on my future. After sitting down with the accountant this winter and realizing that our farm last year had only generated about 3% return, that wasn't even enough money to cover the depreciation on our assets. It was really discouraging to think that at my age... I really want to have a family. I'm getting married this summer, and I want to provide the same lifestyle to my children and my family as I had growing up, and a 3% return is not going to do it.

For me to borrow the money to buy out my parents, I would struggle to even try to generate enough money to pay back that loan. My parents started with nothing, first generation, and they've put every dollar they've had into the farm, reinvesting in it, so they don't have RRSPs. The farm is their retirement and they are solely relying on me to take it over so that I can fund their retirement and our farm can continue.

One of the big problems is profitability, and it scares me, because I know I could leave the farm tomorrow, go out west, or even go down the road and drive a truck for a lot more money than I'm being paid now. But I love agriculture and I love getting up early and I love working outside. It's frustrating to feel unappreciated and kind of not understood by government and our society. They don't realize how hard we really work and the passion we have for what we do every day.

I was privileged to take part last week in the Ag Awareness program. I went into a school and read an agricultural book to a grade two class, trying to speak to the next generation. I had the opportunity to ask the class who wanted to be a farmer, and a lot of them raised their hands excitedly. But one kid to the side said, “Not me.” So I asked the young kid, “Why would you say that?” and he said, “Because there's better jobs out there”. I asked him what he meant by that, and he said, “There are jobs that make more money.”

Our society today is money-based. They want high-paying jobs and they want low-priced goods to buy. And when our product is lined up on a shelf next to an imported product at the same or lesser price, society is going to buy the cheaper product.

I think there's a problem there. We need to start to educate our public on what we do, what we grow, and to kind of support us because they're the ones who keep us going. They have to buy our product for us to make more money.

I agree with a lot of the points made by everybody else, but that was something that really bothered me, that a kid at that age already recognized that agriculture was not a profitable industry. Children, with fresh minds, if they get something like that in their minds, they'll never change. So it bothers me.

I love farming and I want to continue farming, but there needs to be more profitability or I might as well go somewhere else and make more money to provide for my family.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Phillip, what was the age of that young fellow?

[Phillip Keddy]

It was a grade two class; they were about seven years old.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Wow.

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to our last presenter, Mr. Tim Ansems.

[Tim Ansems, As an Individual]

Thank you.

Good morning, members of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-food. I appreciate the opportunity to offer some comments concerning the topic of young farmers and the future of farming.

Let me begin by giving you a snapshot of my life. My name is Tim Ansems. I am 32 years old, and a third-generation poultry and grain farmer from Port Williams. My grandparents on my father's side immigrated with their 11 children from the Netherlands in the 1950s to a dairy farm that my father eventually turned into a tobacco and poultry farm. The tobacco is gone, but my sister still operates the original farm as a poultry operation with my father.

I grew up on a tobacco and poultry farm, and my summer memories are of the physically demanding work of transplanting, weeding, and harvesting the tobacco fields. I had the joy of cleaning the manure out of the poultry barns by shovel. I spent my university summers working for two different local farmers, one on a large-scale crop farm and the other on a small labour-intensive vegetable farm.

In my third year of university, when I was 21, I purchased turkey quota, and during my fourth year of university I purchased a 170-acre farm across the road from the original family farm. After five years of university, I obtained a degree in biosystems engineering with emphasis on agriculture from Dalhousie University. After finishing my degree in 2001, I moved to the farm that I had purchased. I purchased chicken quota and a barn in 2003, and in 2008 I built a turkey barn with a heating system that burns straw.

I have a wife, who arrived on the farm with $30,000 in student debt. We have three children—Caelin, Russell, and Tobi.

I currently grow 25,000 turkeys a year, and 125,000 broiler chickens annually. We also crop 400 acres of wheat, corn, and soybeans, and we rent land to local potato growers.

My wife runs an online retail store—the Valley Cloth Diaper Company—and she operates that on the farm. We used to run a charitable organization—the Brochet Exchange—which provided a summer program for aboriginal youth from a remote community in northern Manitoba. I am currently chairman of the Chicken Farmers of Nova Scotia, and have been a director for the past four years.

I struggle with what to say today. I'm going to try to keep it positive. I won't spend my time stressing the importance of supply management to you today, but I still take the opportunity to let you know that it is important. Pricing control, production control, and import control are three pillars a producer needs to be successful. I stress the producer part. It's all about the producer. If you lose focus on the producer, then there is no future. If you want a future for young farmers, protect supply management.

I am fortunate to be in supply management, and most of my fellow farmers tell me life is good as a poultry farmer. However, the reality for me as a young farmer is that even with supply management, we are struggling to create a sustainable operation. I have only paid income taxes once in ten years, and that was because Angela and I both worked off-farm for income. I have my credit line maxed out, and I have a debt load of $1.5 million. I do have assets in excess of $2 million, but lending institutions and financial programs do not recognize our assets.

Through the use of CASS funding, which was a program for agricultural skills development a couple of years ago, we had an opportunity to work with a business consultant. After she gathered all of our financial information and learned about the industry, she wanted to know what the hell I was doing farming. Clearly, on paper, I wasn't going to survive, but what we did identify is the value that our family places on sustainability, best practices, and stewardship, values that are difficult to turn into short-term profit. Farming is not a traditional business, and very few programs or services are capable of recognizing our unique situation.

Over the past year, Angela has struggled with a health issue for which there are no services or support. We have been relying on credit cards and lines of credit to meet our basic needs of food, clothing, and shelter. Now that Angela is becoming capable of working towards recovering her business and earning an income again, we would like to consolidate our credit card debt to avoid the administrative challenges of making five high-interest payments on different days each month. However, we have not been able to find any lending institution willing to help us simplify and reduce our payments, because on paper we are credit risks. The traditional lending formula does not reflect our reality on the farm. We could sell our quota, pay off all our debt, and still live on the farm. While we may have $2 million in assets, it's not helping us get a $25,000 loan to simplify credit card payments.

This is where it's difficult to avoid feeling some resentment. We consider ourselves stewards of the land, and we enjoy and feel blessed to be working in agriculture, but we also know that we are providing an essential service. We work the land and assume all the risk of food production so that members of society can devote their time to tasks outside of sustenance.

When we are struggling and no one is willing to help, it causes us to wonder why we continue to strive to produce safe, high-quality food for people who don't value or appreciate the importance of local food. Given the statistics and the reality of how few young farmers are entering the profession, it is clear that most people are not interested in the lifestyle of high debt, high risk, low profit. To make agriculture appealing to young farmers, this financial burden needs to be shared by all people who benefit from agriculture.

So why do I want to farm? Independence, self-reliance, innovation, education, lifestyle, experimentation, being stewards of the land, the air, the water. Here on the farm we don't like to whine. We have made the decisions and choices that have gotten us to where we are. Lots of people in different businesses make mistakes and need time to learn before they are successful. Some businesses fail. Some succeed. That's life, but if we continue to treat farmers as independent businessmen who are independently responsible for their successes, we risk losing skilled workers and local producers and we make it easy for a few large companies to assume control of our food.

To make agriculture more appealing for my family, we need financial support now. We need assistance now so we can enjoy a reasonable quality of life. We know we have assets. We know we will make money eventually, we hope. We know it is our responsibility to run a financially sound business, but we'd like to see programs that recognize the public's responsibility to agriculture. We would like to know that our customers, our shareholders, value the services we provide.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you very much, Tim, and all of you.

We'll now move into questions.

Five minutes, Mr. Eyking.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to everybody for coming here this morning during your busy spring schedule.

I'm splitting my time with Scott, so I'm going to try to make it quick. I'm going to ask one question, and that's to Mr. Sawler. I've known your family and operation quite well over the years, and I commend what you and your dad and the rest of your family have done for the industry.

We've talked about size of operations and the commercial aspects of it, but my question is more about when you deal with supply management. I think one of their successes is they're a stakeholder, an equal stakeholder, when they're dealing with governments and the industry. Also, we notice the Quebec farmers seem to have a united voice when they're dealing with governments, retailers, and processors.

Should Atlantic Canada farmers be speaking with a united voice, dealing with the vision we see in agriculture, when they're dealing with governments, retailers, and processors? Should there be a more united voice with a positive vision to say this is where we want to go and these are the tools we need from you to take us there in a more cooperative way, having a stronger stake in that?

[Mark Sawler]

I guess the short answer to that would be yes. The difficulty is in the details, of course.

I admire what Quebec does, but Quebec has this underlying belief that they want to be an independent country, and because of that they submit a little bit of their will to a common goal. The problem is the communication between provinces. Even though we are one area and we should be cooperating, we still view ourselves as a bit distinct, and to get a common voice... I don't know. We all seem to be quite individualistic. I wouldn't want to try to pick out the common voice among us, but from my point of view, yes, that has to happen. But to think there's going to be a groundswell, that you're going to get these guys together and they're going to come up with something that will sound coherent, that's probably not realistic. If you were to offer money for a particular area on the condition that people get together and work out what they need to do in that area, it could probably work.

[Mark Eyking, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Okay, Scott.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Thank you.

We're hearing a common theme here about the importance of bottom-line profitability and we're also hearing about the importance of innovation in terms of that profitability. I'd appreciate hearing, from as many of you as want to contribute, some examples of research and local research, in terms of its impact on your profitability, your capacity to run your operation successfully.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Ms. Erinth.

[Dela Erinth, Executive Director, Nova Scotia Fruit Growers' Association]

My name is Dela Erinth. I am representing the Nova Scotia Fruit Growers Association. That means predominantly apples in this province.

Without science, without scientific research and innovation, we would not be able to maintain any form of economic viability over the long term. We would be out of business. If you want to plant a new cultivar, for example the honeycrisp variety, which brings in five times the amount of a regular, traditional cultivar in this province, without science, we would not be able to grow that and sell it to the consumer as a quality product. We must have science. It must be regional, it must be multidisciplinary, and it must relate to primary production research. It must be targeted at the grower, at the producer level. Without it, we're going to go out of business.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Anybody else?

Mark.

[Mark Sawler]

If you look at the market now, the biggest growth--I'm going to talk about horticulture again--is in the convenience items. The convenience items are your bagged salads, your pre-peeled stuff. The majority of that is capital-intensive. So what has happened is this is mostly being produced in the U.S., where they can run 12 months of the year. In order for us to get into that, it's a real struggle. They're using products that they can grow 12 months of the year.

We're fortunate enough and unfortunate enough up here that we have seasonality. In order for Canadian agriculture to continue to be viable, we need to be able to extend our season with products that people want to buy. As the bar gets raised, we have to raise the quality and the convenience of what we're producing and giving to people, right? That's the reality of it.

I can give some examples, but I'm going to end there.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Okay, Mr. Buzek, quickly.

[Torin Buzek]

I said that we were doing low external input agriculture, and by that, we've been actually going the other way and looking at farming techniques in Africa and Central America, in countries that out of necessity have to do more with less. We've actually had a number of successes with techniques that we've developed from that system of agriculture.

[The Chair, Conservative, Larry Miller]

Thank you.

Ms Bonsant, five minutes.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Boates, I want to talk to you about your truck farm. How many varieties of apple trees do you grow on your land?

[Brian Boates]

I have 25.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

In my riding, there are two truck farms, and I have to say that they are doing quite well, but they have diversified their production. Other processes have been put in place. One of these farms produces ice cider with its apples and pears. The other has set up a stand where they sell pies.

Have you thought about doing secondary or tertiary processing and selling these products not just here, but outside the Maritimes, even outside Canada?

[Brian Boates]

Yes, I'm always looking for new products. This year we're going to do a pear wine vinegar and sell that. Actually, for one of the unique products I've developed, I have had an overseas inquiry to see if I could export it to them. I do sell at the local farmers' market in the capital.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Farming is not doing very well in any of the provinces, whether or not people are independent farmers. The shortage of farmers is a problem, and it is sad, because we talk about food sovereignty, but we do not talk about help for agriculture.

I have been a member of the House of Commons for six years now, and nothing has happened in all that time, under any government. I think along the same lines as Mr. Eyking, even though he is not here. It seems to me that the provincial government knows what people need, but the same is not true elsewhere.

Do you think that regulating dumping by other countries would help you live, more than survive? Do you think there should be a policy on dumping by other countries that do not have the same added value we do? Could that help you survive a bit better, through labelling, a COOL program or whatever?

[Brian Boates]

Dumping is a problem. Certainly south of us there are a lot of apples being planted currently, in the U.S. The retailer shops the world. I always feel like when you shop the world, there's always somewhere in the world where there's going to be a bargain. How we always compete against somewhere where there's a bargain coming from is a real problem, especially in the fruit industry.

[Dela Erinth]

For tree fruits, for apples, dumping is a problem, internationally and domestically, in that on the west coast of Canada they have a problem with Washington State. In the east coast I perceive that there will be a problem coming if New York State is successful in getting a $20-million-a-year replant program that is going into head-to-head competition with what's going on in Nova Scotia right now.

Furthermore, if you want to go to the international marketplace, you would think that in countries such as the United Arab Emirates, you'd be able to export apples to that country and you'd be able to bring home some kind of a profit. Well, that doesn't appear to be the case, because Washington State--and I qualify my statement when I say “dumping”--is providing Dubai with apples that are certainly substandard from what they would put into the Canadian market. They are dumping apples into that market. They have trained the public to receive those apples and to pay a lesser price for them. So exporting to a country that you would think you'd be able to get a profit out of is impossible.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

It is true that it is hard to compete against countries like the United States or European countries, where agriculture is heavily subsidized.

In Quebec and Canada, it is subsidized less and less. So how can we be competitive when we know that other countries are subsidizing their farmers and here, they are being virtually left on their own?