Twelve thousand.
Evidence of meeting #24 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #24 for Agriculture and Agri-Food in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was farm.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
It's large. Would that be considered the commercial scale of which Mr. Lange spoke?
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Would it be your opinion that commercial-scale farms are likely the size of farms that we're going to see more of in the future, so that our farming industry will be able to sustain itself in the manner that you're sustaining yourself?
4:35 p.m.
As an Individual
I think we're going to see both sizes of operations. I don't think our model of farming is necessarily what a lot of other young farmers are looking for. It's what really interests us. We're really interested in exporting and viewing the entire value chain, because we have another brother involved in the operation and parents still in the operation. And 1,500 acres, which I think is about the average size in Saskatchewan, would not sustain us in any way. We'd all have off-farm jobs. So this was the model that really interested us, versus say a niche market or an organic farm or farmers' markets.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Right.
So in the absence of a commercial-size farm--and I think Mr. Lange referred to this--you almost have to have some off-farm opportunities as well. Is that fair to say?
4:35 p.m.
As an Individual
I think there are some viable operations out there that are either creating niche markets on their own or they've really gotten in touch with the consumer and they've been able to increase their margins that way. This is where we saw our future going.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
So if I went to Olds College and decided to get into farming and I came out and looked for 12,000 acres, would it be very likely that I'd be able to start a farm like that without millions and millions and millions of dollars of capital behind me, perhaps through a family member or something?
4:35 p.m.
A voice
Don't do that.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
No, not at all. Trust me, no.
But do you see what I'm saying? It would be rather difficult for me to get into--
4:35 p.m.
As an Individual
It would be very difficult, yes.
Just to lay some groundwork, when David first went back to the family farm operation, it was at about 2,200 acres, so it wasn't necessarily in his parents' vision at the time that he wanted to get to 12,000 and do that. It was kind of our approach.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
When we heard from other farmers before the committee in previous testimony, we heard that if you come from a family and background like yours, then it's likely that a transition into the next generation will be successful. But for new farmers to get into that kind of market it's darned near impossible.
Would you agree with that sentiment?
4:35 p.m.
As an Individual
I think the Wigmore model that we're working on is going to make it easier, because there's an opportunity for those family members who either don't have a viable operation to go home to or don't have a capacity...you know, an acreage base that they could feel comfortable making enough money. With this model they could essentially come into this operation and be a farm module manager in another area of the province. They could go into sales and marketing; they could go into export. Whether it's driving a tractor or selling chemicals, they could be a part of a farm operation on a big level.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
On another issue, and anyone can answer this question, one of the sentiments expressed was that there was a concentration of power in the fertilizer industry, where competitors came together and became larger fertilizer retailers or processors--a large concentration of power--to the point where farmers became price takers as opposed to price setters.
It's different in Canada than in the United States. In the United States they have legislation to break up monopolies. We don't do that here. I'm just wondering whether you suffer from this or not. Do you think, from your knowledge of the broader farm industry, that this concentration of power among certain processors and among, say, fertilizer providers is problematic for the industry and makes profits more difficult for you?
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
I understand it's the open market, but do you believe it presents a problem for farmers, as has been expressed by so many others?
4:40 p.m.
As an Individual
We would like to see more competition. Competition is what's going to drive that market. It's beneficial for producers to have compensation. One way that we can react to that scenario of there being less and less competition is to try to counteract the fearmongering that goes on out there that producers are the price takers, and really establish relationships with the players that are in the market right now; establish relationships with them and make sure they have an understanding of what we're looking for and what we're going to need as equal partners on the value chain. It's going to be difficult. I wish there was more competition, but we're preparing ourselves for what may come.
4:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Larry Miller
Thank you, Frank. Your time has expired.
We'll now to move to Mr. Bellavance for seven minutes.